Uber to Resume in Calgary December 6 2016

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Uh, changing the laws?

We all know what the end result will be. By the time the next election rolls out Uber will be legal anyways or at least there will be a reasonable bylaw in place that will be up to Uber if they want to follow it or not. He's just been trying to 'protect' the taxi industry when it's not an election year.

He's also protecting the citizens by having rules and regulations on the cars and the drivers plus having the proper insurance. What you and some others are proposing is a return to the wild west where each company can make up their own rules.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He's also protecting the citizens by having rules and regulations on the cars and the drivers plus having the proper insurance. What you and some others are proposing is a return to the wild west where each company can make up their own rules.

No we aren't Vulcan. Follow along and stop making stuff up. We don't want cabbies to suffer, nor do we want complete deregulation. You're making #### up for some reason.

We wanted a bylaw that made ride-sharing legal under certain circumstances. The same ones that will eventually be passed:

Proper insurance
Background checks
Vehicle inspection
etc. etc.

Calgary has had multiple years to change the bylaw to protect its citizens. If Uber didn't want to follow that or the drivers didn't want to get commercial insurance because its too expensive or unavailable because of Alberta, that's not on the city and that's fine. But right now City has done nothing, the law is that Uber is illegal so they could only enter illegally. City forced their hands, and by doing so they put the citizens at risk.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

He's also protecting the citizens by having rules and regulations on the cars and the drivers plus having the proper insurance. What you and some others are proposing is a return to the wild west where each company can make up their own rules.

um, no. no one is suggesting that. there are many, many industries who have regulations and rules in place preventing them from becoming 'wild west' while still allowing a free market competition. every other industry I could theoretically open up a competitive shop tomorrow, yet the precious taxi industry is protected.

people are just fed up with the city sitting on their hands for 2 years until forced to do anything. One big issue when Uber started illegally was even with proper insurance it was against by-law to operate without a taxi plate. that is the part of the system that is broken. people would rather tear it down illegally than try to continue propping it up.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

So you want the taxi industry to suffer because they had it good in the good times?

Myself, I'd like there to be no suffering by anyone. That the taxi industry needs some changes is correct but most aren't looking at the big picture of the economic downturn and just want a cab this Friday night.

The taxi industry could have changed over the last 15 years, but didn't They never needed to because they're protected by the city for some unknown reason. They've provided crap service knowing full well that there was no chance of an alternative coming along and cutting their grass. Until now. And wasn't it cute how pissed off cabbies got with their picture taking and threat making. Roger Richard whining like a child to the media, and of course, city hall coming to their rescue, just in time for holiday season.

It's just unbelievable how f-d up this story is. I'll be honest, I will not use taxis again, unless I have to. I guess I'll have to for the next couple of months until Uber is allowed back, but once that happens, I'll specifically support Uber, and the concept of free market out of spite to how the cab system is in this city. AFAIC, Calgary taxis can go the way of Blockbuster, now that we've got Netflix. And I admit that analogy sucks, because Blockbuster never sucked at renting movies, they just didn't bother to change with the times. Calgary taxis suck at giving rides, plus they're not bothering to change with the times. Probably because they're so protected by the City. That's kinda funny when you think about it. The sense of security they've had for so long might be what kills them. Maybe if they had to actually keep up with the times like other businesses and industries do, they wouldn't be on the verge of losing a crapload of their customers because of their own incompetence and because of our spite.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Swarly

um, no. no one is suggesting that. there are many, many industries who have regulations and rules in place preventing them from becoming 'wild west' while still allowing a free market competition. every other industry I could theoretically open up a competitive shop tomorrow, yet the precious taxi industry is protected.

people are just fed up with the city sitting on their hands for 2 years until forced to do anything. One big issue when Uber started illegally was even with proper insurance it was against by-law to operate without a taxi plate. that is the part of the system that is broken. people would rather tear it down illegally than try to continue propping it up.

They are trying to make up their own rules. Uber doesn't want to meet the requirements.

City lawyers will seek a permanent injunction at a full hearing Dec. 17 until safety, insurance and regulatory requirements are met.

Further

Poelman said it would set a dangerous precedent to not enforce an existing bylaw because the city was in the process of revising its laws.

“The respondents do not get to choose which laws are out of date,” Poelman said.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So they sit back, do nothing for 2 years and get roundly rejected in minor changes and then they operate illegally for a month and City Hall decides to do something. That's the reason people aren't blaming Uber. If it wasn't for pressure, City Hall would be doing nothing at all. Not even pretending to work on something.

What is Uber doing to change their practices so that they better fit in the city guidelines?

[llwhiteoutll]

The city will kill Uber quite easily. They'll just say that ride sharing is fine so long as you have a Class 4 license, vehicle inspection and the same commercial insurance as a cab.

Since most of the Uber drivers are doing this part time, none are going to fork out the cash to comply with the restrictions the city places on this. Uber will be effectively shut down, the taxi monopoly protected and the city can say that they changed the law to allow Uber to operate.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

But right now City has done nothing, the law is that Uber is illegal so they could only enter illegally. City forced their hands, and by doing so they put the citizens at risk.

By they you mean Uber right?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

They are trying to make up their own rules. Uber doesn't want to meet the requirements.

Our issue is that it's been multiple years now and there has been nothing done. Uber is illegal under any and all circumstances today like it was when it first entered the city in 2013.

Originally Posted by adc

What is Uber doing to change their practices so that they better fit in the city guidelines?

There is no city guidelines that would make Uber legal under any circumstances. That's our problem.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by 4X4

The taxi industry could have changed over the last 15 years, but didn't They never needed to because they're protected by the city for some unknown reason. They've provided crap service knowing full well that there was no chance of an alternative coming along and cutting their grass. Until now. And wasn't it cute how pissed off cabbies got with their picture taking and threat making. Roger Richard whining like a child to the media, and of course, city hall coming to their rescue, just in time for holiday season.

It's just unbelievable how f-d up this story is. I'll be honest, I will not use taxis again, unless I have to. I guess I'll have to for the next couple of months until Uber is allowed back, but once that happens, I'll specifically support Uber, and the concept of free market out of spite to how the cab system is in this city. AFAIC, Calgary taxis can go the way of Blockbuster, now that we've got Netflix. And I admit that analogy sucks, because Blockbuster never sucked at renting movies, they just didn't bother to change with the times. Calgary taxis suck at giving rides, plus they're not bothering to change with the times. Probably because they're so protected by the City. That's kinda funny when you think about it. The sense of security they've had for so long might be what kills them. Maybe if they had to actually keep up with the times like other businesses and industries do, they wouldn't be on the verge of losing a crapload of their customers because of their own incompetence and because of our spite.

Oh, I agree the taxi industry and Richard need a boot in the youknowhere. My beef is that Uber isn't a good alternative since they won't obey the law. Be careful of what you wish for.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

There is no city guidelines that would make Uber legal under any circumstances. That's our problem.

Sure but if Uber moved to make their drivers have class 4 licenses/commercial insurance/regular vehicle inspections it would take away a lot of the arguments the city has. It would also put them much closer to the cab companies meaning the laws would be easier to change to fit them in.

But Uber doesn't want to do this because then they aren't making money hand over fist on the backs of their drivers. So really Uber only wants a situation where the laws are completely done away with so they can make money by forcing the liability on the drivers and passengers.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

My beef is that Uber isn't a good alternative since they won't obey the law.

THERE IS NO LAW THEY CAN OBEY VULCAN. Not in Calgary at least.

What law do you refer to?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by adc

Sure but if Uber moved to make their drivers have class 4 licenses/commercial insurance/regular vehicle inspections it would take away a lot of the arguments the city has. It would also put them much closer to the cab companies meaning the laws would be easier to change to fit them in.

But Uber doesn't want to do this because then they aren't making money hand over fist on the backs of their drivers. So really Uber only wants a situation where the laws are completely done away with so they can make money by forcing the liability on the drivers and passengers.

I don't care what Uber wants. I want City Hall to have a bylaw that makes ride-sharing legal under the proper circumstances, one that has been repeated ad nauseam throughout the thread.

If Uber doesn't want to follow a reasonable bylaw, then I have no sympathy for Uber and would hope they would crack down on anyone providing it. The issue is, City Hall is too concerned with protecting their taxi friends to implement even a reasonable bylaw which forced Ubers hand. Right now, as it has been for years, Uber and other ride-sharing is illegal. It's a joke, if it's not corruption it's incompetency. They've had years to come up with something, and now they will look into it again in February because Uber forced their hands.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

THERE IS NO LAW THEY CAN OBEY VULCAN. Not in Calgary at least.

What law do you refer to?

Well they better learn to obey the rules or like I said, it's a return to the wild west.

City lawyers will seek a permanent injunction at a full hearing Dec. 17 until safety, insurance and regulatory requirements are met.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well they better learn to obey the rules or like I said, it's a return to the wild west.

What rules Vulcan be specific? The one that says they are illegal under any circumstance? How could they possibly obey with that?

Are you just that ill informed about the current bylaws or are you being intentionally obtuse?

The fact you come in here and accuse anyone of disagreeing with City Hall's actions on this as wanting cabbies to suffer, and try to make it seem like the taxis just need a helping hand in this economic downturn seems to suggest you have ulterior motives here.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

What rules Vulcan be specific? The one that says they are illegal under any circumstance? How could they possibly obey with that?

Are you just that ill informed about the current bylaws or are you being intentionally obtuse?

The fact you come in here and accuse anyone of disagreeing with City Hall's actions on this as wanting cabbies to suffer, and try to make it seem like the taxis just need a helping hand in this economic downturn seems to suggest you have ulterior motives here.

Obviously I'm dealing with someone who doesn't want to discuss the situation with an open mind. I'm done with you.

[DFO]

Guess I'll have my say at the ballot box next time around. Not voting for Nenshi or my Alderman again (even if Uber is allowed back). Two years was long enough to deal with the issue.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Obviously I'm dealing with someone who doesn't want to discuss the situation with an open mind. I'm done with you.

I'm just asking you to point out what rules or bylaws you want Uber to obey.

The simple fact is the bylaw that currently exist in Calgary makes Uber illegal under any and all circumstances. It's been known for years, and City Hall has not changed it. We're the ones asking for City Hall to come up with a bylaw that ensures the legalization of ride-sharing under the constraints that you have also pointed out, things like insurance, background checks, proper licences etc. We wanted the City to come up with a framework that opens up the market but still ensures the safety of passengers. They have failed to do so for years, and that should be a concern for Calgarians.

There are issues that go beyond their control, like the availability and cost of insurance, but that's not much more than a red herring because, again, under all circumstances Uber is illegal in Calgary.

The fact that Uber had to come in illegally to force Council's hand is the reason I wont be voting for Nenshi again. Over the course of the several years he had known about Uber the bylaws should have been changed that allowed for the operation of it legally in Calgary under the right conditions before today. And if Uber didn't want to play nice it would have been on Uber. Now Uber comes in, after another ruling against them 2 years after the fact, and forced council to do something. By February they'll have a framework in place only because of the external pressure of an entity forced to illegally operate in the city. That's the big issue I have.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well they better learn to obey the rules or like I said, it's a return to the wild west.

As it stands, it is completely impossible for Uber drivers to be in compliance with the current regulations. The rules NEED to be changed and city hall has been dragging its feet for years.

Currently, the only rule that Uber can follow is to not operate. Which in the long run, is completely unacceptable.

[Buzzcock]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

The city will kill Uber quite easily. They'll just say that ride sharing is fine so long as you have a Class 4 license, vehicle inspection and the same commercial insurance as a cab.

Since most of the Uber drivers are doing this part time, none are going to fork out the cash to comply with the restrictions the city places on this. Uber will be effectively shut down, the taxi monopoly protected and the city can say that they changed the law to allow Uber to operate.

So what's wrong with requiring a class 4 license, vehicle inspections, and appropriate insurance? You seem to think that's to exclusively protect the incumbent taxi companies. I think (hope) it's moreso to protect the consumer.

I'm not anti-Uber. I used them a fair number of times over the past few weeks. But I would like to make sure the vehicles and drivers are appropriately vetted and insured.