As Violence worsens, drugs become cheaper and more available

[Flash Walken]

VANCOUVER — Billions of dollars have been put towards nipping the drug-trade in the bud, yet the ease of obtaining marijuana and its potency have bloomed, while its price has dropped, according to a prominent group lobbying for cannabis legalization.

A new report by the Stop the Violence BC coalition of health, academic and justice experts will be released today to demonstrate the result of current anti-drug policy.

It uses government-funded data to show that cannabis trends are thriving, despite decades of huge cash injections to law enforcement agencies in both Canada and the U.S.

"If the goal is to reduce the availability of marijuana, it's clearly been a dramatic failure," said Dr. Evan Wood, a founding member of the coalition and director at the BC Centre for Excellence in HIV-AIDS.

"By every metric, the government's own data has shown this policy has clearly not achieved its stated objective."

The report, called "How not to protect community health and safety," is being released as the federal Conservatives' omnibus crime bill -- which toughens penalties for growing and possessing pot -- heads towards speedy passage into law.

The coalition contends the proposed measures continue to propel policy in the wrong direction, when what the government should be doing is regulating and taxing cannabis under a comprehensive public health framework.

Since 2007, the majority of at least $260 million in funding against drugs from Ottawa has been allocated to policing. Between 1990 to 2009, arrests have increased by 70 per cent.

Meanwhile, the parallel U.S. budget has increased from $1.5 billion in 1981 to $18 billion in 2002.

Arrests jumped there by 160 per cent between 1990 and 2009, while pot seizures more than quadrupled.

But at the same time, prevalence of cannabis use rose.

The Canadian Alcohol and Drug Use Monitoring Survey showed 27 per cent of B.C. youth between 15 and 24 smoked weed at least once in the previous year.

In Ontario, the number of high school students using pot doubled from fewer than 10 per cent in 1991 to more than 20 per cent in 2009.

In the U.S., use climbed about eight per cent among Grade 12 students.

"It's just so clear that organized crime has absolutely overwhelmed these law enforcement efforts with the price of marijuana going down dramatically ... (and) the potency has gone up astronomically," Wood said.

Among the groups supporting the initiative to legalize marijuana is the 19-member Health Officer's Council of B.C.

Dr. Paul Hasselback, who chairs the council, said medical experts are not asserting the drug is safe, but that policy as it stands puts the public at even greater risk.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories...-bloom-111222/

As a Vancouerite who follows organized crime news closely, there appears to be a shifting of public opinion in the city (and i'm assuming the province). What many people used to acknowledge before in the privacy of their own homes is now seemingly a much more public discussion.

I think the people in this city are very slowly starting to realize that illegal marijuana and public shootings go hand in hand. With the rise of armed violence in very public places escalating, it appears as though BC residents are starting to care a bit more about the laws they are surrounded by.

This public opinion will only get stronger as the violence gets worse, and I believe it is a relatively short matter of time before a provincial political party will take this on as a major platform issue in order to win an election.

The costs are proving to be far too high, both in terms of dollars and damage to the society inhabited by peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Of course, as the violence has begun to boil over here, the spillage is carried over into Alberta.

[missdpuck]

I don't use pot or any other drug, but am in favor of legalization.

Well, that's my lame, simplistic comment. It's a worthwhile discussion.

[troutman]

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...ths/myths4.htm

I. Their Argument
Proponents of legalization suggest that the experiences of countries such as Great Britain, the Netherlands, and Switzerland prove the efficacy of legalizing or decriminalizing various types of illegal drugs such as cocaine, heroin, and marijuana. They maintain that because such drugs are legal, these countries have fewer addicts and less drug-related crime.

II. Our Argument
The statements of the legalizers here are empirically untrue. As we discuss each country in turn, it will be shown that legalization did not work in any of them.

Europe’s More Liberal Drug Policies Are Not the Right Model for America.
http://www.justice.gov/dea/demand/speakout/09so.htm

Fiction: Drug Legalization Works
Fact: Tolerant drug policies in other countries have led to higher drug abuse rates and negative social consequences.

http://www.justthinktwice.com/factsf...ion_works.html

[North East Goon]

smoking indo...sipping on gin and juice

[aaronck]

I've noticed no drop in price, maybe we can organize a group buy for BC bud?

[nik-]

Let the government sell weed and tax it.

It won't lower the number of addicts obviously (to be honest, I don't ever recall arguing this as a benefit of legalization) It might help addicts get easier access to treatment?

Number of arrests is such a horrible stat to use as a measure of success.

[Mike F]

As can be gathered from this 2008 article, treating the organized crime problem in BC as a pot problem that can be solved by legalizing pot grossly oversimplifies the situation.

Consider, for a moment, just a few figures that show the size and scope of the crime industry in B.C.:

· There are an estimated 20,000 marijuana grow ops in houses across the province, and many thousands more hidden in the mountains and valleys of the interior. It's conservatively estimated that marijuana is an industry with revenues of $5 billion to $7 billion a year.

· In the last few years, according to the Canadian Border Services Agency, more than $1 billion worth of cocaine has been seized at borders in the Pacific region. One media report last fall found the amount of cocaine recovered at B.C.'s borders more than tripled in the previous two years.

· The province is the main port of entry for chemicals used in the manufacture of drugs such as methamphetamine and ecstasy, while B.C.-based Asian gangs are the largest suppliers of ecstasy to Canada and the U.S.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that legalizing pot won't eliminate the underground pot growing and distribution networks run by organized crime. Consider that even though cigarettes have never been illegal and are readily available in stores, one estimate puts the sale of black market cigarettes at 27% of all sales in Canada.

[missdpuck]

I think the Dutch law changed recently, but I'm too lazy to look it up.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mike F

As can be gathered from this 2008 article, treating the organized crime problem in BC as a pot problem that can be solved by legalizing pot grossly oversimplifies the situation.

Luckily, no one is making the argument that the organized crime problem can be solved by legalizing marijuana.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Luckily, no one is making the argument that the organized crime problem can be solved by legalizing marijuana.

Hmmm...

A new report by the Stop the Violence BC coalition

Sure sounds like they're looking at legalizing pot for the purpose of eliminating the organized crime problem

[CaptainCrunch]

I would think that if we legalize pot and tax the crap out of it, we would still have the illegal market undercutting any prices and offering more potent pot.

you would also have a massive underage user market that would still need to buy illegally.

I'm all for increasing the government revenue stream by issuing licenses to grow it and sell it and putting it into liquor stores.

I'm not a fan of dealers who sell it to kids,

I'm not in favor of legalizing and distributing the really devestating hard drugs.

But if you did legalize pot for example the gangs aren't going to go away, they're not going to shrug their shoulders and retire, they'll get fight for a shrinking market, they'll push hard drugs, they'll smuggle firearms in and sell them. They'll find more potent pot.

The lure of the easy buck isn't eliminated by legalizing the market, they'll just find another way to maximize profits.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Hmmm...


Sure sounds like they're looking at legalizing pot for the purpose of eliminating the organized crime problem

I don't know how you're making that connection.

They're looking to change policies that are obviously outdated and noneffective against dealing with the results of an organized crime-led drug economy.

This isn't a magic bullet that will prevent the import of chemicals used in the manufacture of drugs like methamphetamine, and no one is claiming it is.

The argument is that if you're going to be spending a bunch of money on targeting and eliminating the access to drugs, you probably shouldn't be seeing a reduction in price and improved availability.

As problematic as cocaine, opiates, methamphetamines and pharmaceutical drugs are, the currency of organized crime in this province is marijuana in exactly the same way it was during Alcohol Prohibition.

[ShaolinFlame]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

smoking indo...sipping on gin and juice

I prefer smoking outdo, as my house stinks less.

Endo

[3 Justin 3]

So if like 25% of people between 15-24 are smoking pot, why not legalize it? Canadian gov't would make a killing.

Also lol @ pot addicts. Just lazy people who play video games and eat too much Doritos, what a crime.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But if you did legalize pot for example the gangs aren't going to go away, they're not going to shrug their shoulders and retire, they'll get fight for a shrinking market, they'll push hard drugs, they'll smuggle firearms in and sell them. They'll find more potent pot.

The lure of the easy buck isn't eliminated by legalizing the market, they'll just find another way to maximize profits.

They do this anyway, already.

The easy buck is in the fact that they can sell something for 3 grand that mykalberta could grow in one of his empty computer cases.

Importing chemicals is hard. Sourcing illegal drugs in foreign markets is hard. Finding/paying your way around enforcement is hard. Maintaining uninterrupted supply lines is hard. Refining raw narcotics on a commercial level is hard.

Growing weed on your porch is effortless.

Yes, kids will still look to get their hands on it, the same way that underage smoking and drinking is at epidemic levels in some parts of the country. No one would ever use that as an argument to make alcohol illegal now, though. You'd be laughed out of the building by every responsible adult that enjoys a beer watching a hockey game or a glass of wine with dinner or a rum and eggnog at christmas.

It's the illegality which makes it profitable, not the substance. The tougher it is to get, the more profitable the venture.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The lure of the easy buck isn't eliminated by legalizing the market, they'll just find another way to maximize profits.

Couldn't you ultimately use the tax money of legalizing marijuana to beef up police and border presence for harder drugs and more dangerous activities?

Of course there is always going to be a black market, you can find that with almost anything in life. However most people will choose the legal way because the government could keep it at a competitive price and most people would rather not deal with drug dealers like they are forced to right now.

Canada spends around $500m a year in fighting drug crimes, $400m of that is spent on marijuana. What is wrong with that picture? Shouldn't they be focusing on the drugs that cause actual addicition and can ruin peoples lives more than having to run to 7-11 for munchies?

You know there is an issue when the criminals prefer and fight to keep something illegal. Ask any grower who makes $10-20,000 a month growing in his spare bedroom if he wants it legalized. Their answer will be no. And of course the police want to keep it illegal because that's how they continue to get funding for the "fight". They know just as much as the next person the fight was lost the moment they started it.

[Calgaryborn]

The war on drugs hasn't worked because of the soft sentences handed out. Dealing and growing marijuana is very profitable. Right now if your caught it is a slap on the hand.

[Flames_Gimp]

As long as Harper is in power we will never see legalization. He wants to keep putting more money in the pockets of real criminals!

[mikey_the_redneck]

http://justpaste.it/Sweden_Legalizes_Cannabis

"The Swedish Parliament has approved a law which will regulate the growing, usage and trade of cannabis. This is according to the Health and Social Services of Sweden, Jonas Grönhög, who was quoted, "We don't want to make the same mistakes which the USA has done, we do not want to be prohibitionists because the war on drugs has been lost long ago. It is better to prevent marginalization of young people than jail them for soft drugs usage which are comparatively harmless. If we allow the sale of alcohol, there is no reason to ban the soft drugs no longer.""

I applaud Sweden.
We should quit throwing dope smokers in jail, it's expensive dammit.
The war on drugs has been a fantastic failure.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

The war on drugs hasn't worked because of the soft sentences handed out. Dealing and growing marijuana is very profitable. Right now if your caught it is a slap on the hand.

Has nothing to do with soft sentences, look at the punishments handed out in the states and they have the same problem with the amount of marijuana in their country. If anything harsher punishments just equal more money in the criminals hands because they can charge more with increased risks even though it costs the same to produce.