Elliott lets in another softy - is this his last game in Calgary?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by polak

Have people even looked at Bishops numbers?

2012-2013 TBL 2.99 .917
2013-2014 TBL 2.23 .924
2014-2015 TBL 2.32 .916
2015-2016 TBL 2.06 .926
2016-2017 TBL 2.55 .911
2016-2017 LAK 2.49 .900

Career: 2.32 .919

Compared to Elliot:

2012-2013 STL 2.28 .907
2013-2014 STL 1.96 .922
2014-2015 STL 2.26 .917
2015-2016 STL 2.07 .930
2016-2017 CGY 2.55 .910

Career: 2.42 .913

His numbers were pretty much just as bad as Elliots this year and they've been close their entire careers. He is the same tier of goalie as Elliot. Signing him long term is a mistake when (if) we can sign Elliot for cheap and short term.



Well they should realize his play in the second half is the reason why they were in the playoffs in the first place.

Really hope Treliving is more grounded in his opinion the goaltending situation than the fans.

Bishop was actually in a starters role where Elliott wasnt

Elliott played on maybe the leagues best shut down team


There are lots of guys who put up good numbers playing 30 or 40 games...that is NOT what the Flames need

[polak]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Bishop was actually in a starters role where Elliott wasnt

Elliott played on maybe the leagues best shut down team


There are lots of guys who put up good numbers playing 30 or 40 games...that is NOT what the Flames need

They don't need a 30 year old second tier starter signed for 5 years either as there's not even a good chance that he will deliver significantly better numbers than Elliot.

Look at his last year. He's fully capable of disappointing just like Elliot.

I'm totally on board with replacing Elliot either with a young bonafide starter on a long term deal (good luck) or an older starter on a short term deal while we transition to Gillies and Parsons.

Bishop is not going to sign short term and he is not a clear upgrade on Elliot.

[Strange Brew]

I don't want to hear any of this sign Elliott if the price is right nonsense. I don't want him for free. Given where this team has been they need an unquestioned starter.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by polak

They don't need a 30 year old second tier starter signed for 5 years either as there's not even a good chance that he will deliver significantly better numbers than Elliot.

Look at his last year. He's fully capable of disappointing just like Elliot.

I'm totally on board with replacing Elliot either with a young bonafide starter on a long term deal (good luck) or an older starter on a short term deal while we transition to Gillies and Parsons.

Bishop is not going to sign short term and he is not a clear upgrade on Elliot.

lol at the who guy who has two Vezina nominations, one as recent as LAST season, being referred to as "second tier".

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by polak

They don't need a 30 year old second tier starter signed for 5 years either as there's not even a good chance that he will deliver significantly better numbers than Elliot.

Look at his last year. He's fully capable of disappointing just like Elliot.

Bishop has been nominated for the Vezina twice and has played starters minutes before. He is not second tier and is the best free agent option out there. Flames may make a trade for a goalie a team may lose to expansion but in terms of the UFA market he is the guy.

Not shocked he struggled this earnwith all the trade chatter in the summer he knew his days were numbered in Tampa

[Firebot]

It's high time for Sigalet to go. How many goalies have recessed under him both in the AHL and NHL? What is the last goalie that has been coached by him and not regressed?

These are the goalies that have been coached by Sigalet either in the AHL or NHL.

Leland Irving
Henrik Karlsson
Danny Taylor
Joni Ortio
Karri Ramo
Jonas Hiller
Brian Elliott
Chad Johnson

Not one AHL goalie made it as a prospect, and every single NHL goalie he has touched has regressed.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26014

Every team that has had some great young NHL goalies or resurging goalies (like Bernier) all have a decent former goaltender behind them coaching (see Johan Hedberg and Roloson)

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Firebot

It's high time for Sigalet to go. How many goalies have recessed under him both in the AHL and NHL? What is the last goalie that has been coached by him and not regressed?

These are the goalies that have been coached by Sigalet either in the AHL or NHL.

Leland Irving
Henrik Karlsson
Joni Ortio
Karri Ramo
Jonas Hiller
Brian Elliott
Chad Johnson

Not one AHL goalie made it as a prospect, and every single NHL goalie he has touched has regressed.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26014

Every team that has had some great young NHL goalies or resurging goalies (like Bernier) all have a decent former goaltender behind them coaching (see Johan Hedberg and Roloson)

Whats weirder is how many of them had glove issues under his watch.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Bishop has been nominated for the Vezina twice and has played starters minutes before. He is not second tier and is the best free agent option out there. Flames may make a trade for a goalie a team may lose to expansion but in terms of the UFA market he is the guy.

Not shocked he struggled this earnwith all the trade chatter in the summer he knew his days were numbered in Tampa

And I'm not shocked Elliot struggled on a new team with a new coach that was in absolute disarray at the beginning of the year. Since the all star break you can count the truly bad games Elliot had on one hand.

Signing Bishop long term will be a mistake in my opinion. Clearly their is no convincing you guys. Elliot had a bad playoffs, burn him at the stake.

[tsquared1967]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't want to hear any of this sign Elliott if the price is right nonsense. I don't want him for free. Given where this team has been they need an unquestioned starter.

You might not have a choice unless you are Brian Burke and make all final decisions for the Flames.

[tsquared1967]

Originally Posted by polak

And I'm not shocked Elliot struggled on a new team with a new coach that was in absolute disarray at the beginning of the year. Since the all star break you can count the truly bad games Elliot had on one hand.

Signing Bishop long term will be a mistake.

Since the start of the playoffs you can count the truly bad games Elliott had on one hand because he only played 4 games.

Game 1: Stone doesn't drop down for a block and the puck goes between his legs and then between Elliott's body and left arm for the winning goal. I see this goal as one that he should have had.

Game 2: Horrible goaltending by Elliott on the 1st goal. NHL goaltenders make the save 100% of the time.

Game 3: Bad rebound in front of the net instead of directing it into the corner like NHL goalies do resulted in the 1st goal.
While Perry was punching Flames players on the bench and not being penalized for it, Elliott gives up soft goal.
Total miss with glove hand by Elliott for a goal.

Game 4: Horrible goal to give up by Elliott.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by polak

They don't need a 30 year old second tier starter signed for 5 years either as there's not even a good chance that he will deliver significantly better numbers than Elliot.

Look at his last year. He's fully capable of disappointing just like Elliot.

I'm totally on board with replacing Elliot either with a young bonafide starter on a long term deal (good luck) or an older starter on a short term deal while we transition to Gillies and Parsons.

Bishop is not going to sign short term and he is not a clear upgrade on Elliot.

hahahahahahah Ben Bishop is a 2nd tier goalie. are you joking me? you do realize he isn't signed in tampa long term cuz of cap issues mainly and secondly....the projection of a 22 yr old Vasilievsky.


Carey Price
Braden Holtby
Jonathan Quick

That's about the list of goalies that are better than Ben Bishop on the planet currently while comparing accomplishments. Bishop is an annual Vezina candidate who's been to the Cup Finals. His past season was an abomination. He was getting 2 starts and then sat for Vasilievsky....2 starts then sat...2 starts and then sat....cuz Tampa was handing over the reigns. In his final year, Bishop was just in a terrible situation to perform at his best.

Guy's a top 5 goaltender in the league....and #'s don't matter as much. Bishop and Elliott could have the same numbers but Bishop would be miles ahead in the 'confidence' department. I had no confidence in Elliott these playoffs and that rubs off on the rest of the team.

Just cause he played in Tampa and the East....he doesnt get enough credit on these boards.

[polak]

I'm not denying he had a bad playoffs. I don't think the correct action is to go out and sign a big name 30 year old UFA goalie whose career numbers aren't much better than Elliots (despite games played) when we have two solid goaltending prospects in the wings.

Unless of course he signs short term. Then go for it.

[AltaGuy]

Still hoping we can lure Sean Burke here to coach the goalies with the Treliving/Mahoney connections.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by polak

I'm not denying he had a bad playoffs. I don't think the correct action is to go out and sign a big name 30 year old UFA goalie whose career numbers aren't much better than Elliots (despite games played) when we have two solid goaltending prospects in the wings.

Unless of course he signs short term. Then go for it.

Carey Price - 29
Braden Holtby - 27
Jonathan Quick - 31
Ben Bishop - 30
Sergei Bobrovsky - 28
Marc-Andre Fleury - 32
Cam Talbot - 29
Fredrik Andersen - 27
Craig Anderson - 35
Pekka Rinne - 34

The goaltending position isn't like playing as a skater. Goalies usually hit their primes later and play well into their mid 30s if they are elite.

If you have a chance to sign Bishop - you do it. He's an elite goalie. You wouldn't take Carey Price at age 29 on a long term contract right now? What about Quick at 31? Hell....Talbot got a long term deal from the Oilers and he's 29.....

Your argument is out to lunch..Craig Anderson - 35 and Pekka Rinne - 34 are playing extremely well right now in the 1st round of the playoffs.....

Besides, Ben Bishop isnt a reflex goalie or whatever they are called. He should age perfectly fine. He primarily uses his size and positioning to stop the puck.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by tsquared1967

You might not have a choice unless you are Brian Burke and make all final decisions for the Flames.

Did you mean to say Ken King?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by robaur

Carey Price - 29
Braden Holtby - 27
Jonathan Quick - 31
Ben Bishop - 30
Sergei Bobrovsky - 28
Marc-Andre Fleury - 32
Cam Talbot - 29
Fredrik Andersen - 27
Craig Anderson - 35
Pekka Rinne - 34

The goaltending position isn't like playing as a skater. Goalies usually hit their primes later and play well into their mid 30s if they are elite.

If you have a chance to sign Bishop - you do it. He's an elite goalie. You wouldn't take Carey Price at age 29 on a long term contract right now? What about Quick at 31? Hell....Talbot got a long term deal from the Oilers and he's 29.....

Your argument is out to lunch..Craig Anderson - 35 and Pekka Rinne - 34 are playing extremely well right now in the 1st round of the playoffs.....

Besides, Ben Bishop isnt a reflex goalie or whatever they are called. He should age perfectly fine. He primarily uses his size and positioning to stop the puck.

This is why I think he does well here...with the new system (hopefully it continues to progress) the Flames don't give up much other than outside shots.

Ducks hardly had any high end chances

[polak]

Originally Posted by robaur

Carey Price - 29
Braden Holtby - 27
Jonathan Quick - 31
Ben Bishop - 30
Sergei Bobrovsky - 28
Marc-Andre Fleury - 32
Cam Talbot - 29
Fredrik Andersen - 27
Craig Anderson - 35
Pekka Rinne - 34

The goaltending position isn't like playing as a skater. Goalies usually hit their primes later and play well into their mid 30s if they are elite.

If you have a chance to sign Bishop - you do it. He's an elite goalie. You wouldn't take Carey Price at age 29 on a long term contract right now? What about Quick at 31? Hell....Talbot got a long term deal from the Oilers and he's 29.....

Your argument is out to lunch..Craig Anderson - 35 and Pekka Rinne - 34 are playing extremely well right now in the 1st round of the playoffs.....

Besides, Ben Bishop isnt a reflex goalie or whatever they are called. He should age perfectly fine. He primarily uses his size and positioning to stop the puck.

Age is only a part of it. My main reason for concern is if he ####s the bed like all of the last 4 or 5 goalies the Flames have had, I don't want to be stuck with him. Remember he is coming off just as bad of a year as Elliot.

[tsquared1967]

Originally Posted by robaur

Your argument is out to lunch..Craig Anderson - 35 and Pekka Rinne - 34 are playing extremely well right now in the 1st round of the playoffs.....

The Flames drafted Anderson but he wasn't signed and went back into the draft 2 years later.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by polak

Age is only a part of it. My main reason for concern is if he ####s the bed like all of the last 4 or 5 goalies the Flames have had, I don't want to be stuck with him. Remember he is coming off just as bad of a year as Elliot.

Ben Bishop is BEN BISHOP.....

Brian Elliott is well...Brian ####in Elliott....

I can't believe we are even having this conversation. The two aren't even on the same level. Everyone loved Elliott cuz of his fancy stats were awesome and that's how he was sold to the public. If anyone has ever had him in Fantasy Hockey over the past 3-4 years, you'd know he's a wild inconsistent goalie. He will play like crap for 20 games and then be god-like for 20 games. Unfortunately, in the playoffs, we got the #### version of Elliott.

Ben Bishop is not nearly the same type of goalie.

You don't pass up on Ben Bishop because we have Gillies and even moreso Parsons.....we HAVE NO REASON to believe that they will ever be as good as Ben Bishop is right now. You cross that bridge when you get there. You can't project goaltending.

[polak]

His fancy stats?

You mean sv% and GAA?

The same year Bishop had his career year, Elliot had a BETTER sv% and comparable GAA. Yes he had less workload due to his team having another option in net but lets not pretend that Elliot is not a great goalie because he had ONE bad playoff series. He still played 41 games that year. If Gillies is as good as we think, 40-50 games is what Elliot or his replacement will probably play anyways.

As good as Ben Bishop is right now? HIS LAST SEASON WAS JUST AS BAD AS ELLIOTS AND HE COULDN'T CARRY EITHER TEAM INTO THE PLAYOFFS. At least Elliot got them there.