Edmonton Christian school: LGBQT's have mental illnesses

[The Yen Man]

So I'm not really that familiar with Christianity and all their rules, but isn't premarital sex also considered a sin? If so, why aren't Christians lambasting everyone who does it? Seems to me like a lot of Christians who are using the bible to go against LGBQT rights are using it to mask their own intolerance. At least, that's how it seems to me anyways.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Now you're just being a dick.

Reading this thread is worse than rinsing my eyes with fistfuls of powdered glass. Why do you even bother?

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by peter12

Reading this thread is worse than rinsing my eyes with fistfuls of powdered glass. Why do you even bother?

yet here you are.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

So I'm not really that familiar with Christianity and all their rules, but isn't premarital sex also considered a sin? If so, why aren't Christians lambasting everyone who does it? Seems to me like a lot of Christians who are using the bible to go against LGBQT rights are using it to mask their own intolerance. At least, that's how it seems to me anyways.

Don't forget they seem to overlook the edict that says adulterers are supposed to be stoned to death in the village square. They never want to do that anymore. Also no wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics, big no no.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

So I'm not really that familiar with Christianity and all their rules, but isn't premarital sex also considered a sin? If so, why aren't Christians lambasting everyone who does it? Seems to me like a lot of Christians who are using the bible to go against LGBQT rights are using it to mask their own intolerance. At least, that's how it seems to me anyways.

If you start listing hypocrisies, inconsistencies, and illogical thought when it comes to Christianity as an institution, we'll be here a while LOL.

I'm not religious but have veered away from sneering at it (not saying you are) because as far as I can tell, at its root, most religions want you to do the following:

• Have free will as an individual and encourage freedom
• Not harm people

Religion/spirituality isn't a bad thing. People are.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

According to the bible, when was earth or the universe created?

I am curious to know: why do you think this matters? It is not really a question that is addressed directly by "the Bible" because it is not something that was deemed altogether very important to those who wrote about creation. It is a mistake to expect things from the Bible that it simply does not address—this is the source of so much Evangelical hermeneutical silliness in the first place.

[The Yen Man]

For sure, I'm not against religion. If it puts people in a healthy state of mind and generally makes them do good, then I'm all for it. You're totally free to believe what you want.

I guess my point stems from an argument I had with a Christian who was against gay marriage because it goes against her religion. She was living together with her boyfriend at the time. So I asked her why that's not against her teachings, and she's like "oh, I don't believe in that part of the bible". So I commented, you're only a Christian of convenience. If you pick and choose parts to believe and not believe, why do you choose to believe the part that makes you a bigot?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Are you being sarcastic?

Care to offer up some examples of me "ragging on Muslim countries?"

I've said that most of the world is far more conservative than the West. And I've said that Muslims are typically more conservative than Christians. I've also said the Muslim immigrants who come to Canada tend to more educated and secular than Muslims in general.

I don't especially care what people outside Canada do, and don't consider it my business. And as I said, our immigration system tends to attract more educated and secular Muslims. Our refugee system doesn't, though. It is perfectly sensible for liberals like myself to question the wisdom of welcoming large numbers of refugees from the more socially-backward parts of the world to Canada. Or at least to recognize that it will likely cause social friction.

It is fascinating how many people who don't hesitate to slam Christians and Christianity as gay-hating bigots hold their tongue when it comes to a religion that is far more hostile to gays. I guess the fear of appearing racist trumps everything.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Care to offer up some examples of me "ragging on Muslim countries?"

I've said that most of the world is far more conservative than the West. And I've said that Muslims are typically more conservative than Christians. I've also said the Muslim immigrants who come to Canada tend to more educated and secular than Muslims in general.

I don't especially care what people outside Canada do, and don't consider it my business. And as I said, our immigration system tends to attract more educated and secular Muslims. Our refugee system doesn't, though. It is perfectly sensible for liberals like myself to question the wisdom of welcoming large numbers of refugees from the more socially-backward parts of the world to Canada. Or at least to recognize that it will likely cause social friction.

It is fascinating how many people who don't hesitate to slam Christians and Christianity as gay-hating bigots hold their tongue when it comes to a religion that is far more hostile to gays. I guess the fear of appearing racist trumps everything.

Frankly, I think there are just far less opportunities to criticize the views of Muslim individuals or predominantly Muslim institutions because both are (a) far less common in Canada than Christian individuals and predominantly Christian institutions; and (b) less politically active than Christian individuals and predominantly Christian institutions.

I also note that there very few calls to expel or deny entry to conservative Christians for fear of "social friction".

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I also note that there very few calls to expel or deny entry to conservative Christians for fear of "social friction".

There aren't a whole hell of a lot of them applying for refugee status. And no one was calling for anyone to be "expelled", so I'm not sure where you got that from.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Frankly, I think there are just far less opportunities to criticize the views of Muslim individuals or predominantly Muslim institutions because both are (a) far less common in Canada than Christian individuals and predominantly Christian institutions; and (b) less politically active than Christian individuals and predominantly Christian institutions.

Which is a misperception. For example, the strongest hostility to sex education in schools is in commuties with high concentrations of immigrants.

Muslim community taking the lead in latest round of Ontario sex-education protests

Sex Ed Not Welcome at Any Age for Many Immigrant Parents

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

There aren't a whole hell of a lot of them applying for refugee status. And no one was calling for anyone to be "expelled", so I'm not sure where you got that from.

Most of the refugees admitted to Canada during the Bosnian conflict were Christian, and I don't remember much of a push back against them (albeit, I was a teenager).

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Just for shiggles someone visualised all the contradictions in the Bible...

http://bibviz.com/

Yeah...using a text this discombobulated to guide your actions...what could possibly go wrong?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

There aren't a whole hell of a lot of them applying for refugee status. And no one was calling for anyone to be "expelled", so I'm not sure where you got that from.

I just added that for some dramatic flair.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Which is a misperception. For example, the strongest hostility to sex education in schools is in commuties with high concentrations of immigrants.

Muslim community taking the lead in latest round of Ontario sex-education protests

Sex Ed Not Welcome at Any Age for Many Immigrant Parents

Well, I'm not convinced that two examples proves that it is a misconception. There are few studies on the topic (that I can find anyway) but, based on history and demographics, I would be positively shocked if Christian ideas and institutions were not significantly more active than Muslim ones in Canadian political discourse.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Most of the refugees admitted to Canada during the Bosnian conflict were Christian, and I don't remember much of a push back against them (albeit, I was a teenager).

I believe that "most" of them were Bosnian Muslims, actually. Christian Croatians in Bosnia fled to Croatia proper at the time. But people equate white Europeans with Christian all the time.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, I'm not convinced that two examples proves that it is a misconception. There are few studies on the topic (that I can find anyway) but, based on history and demographics, I would be positively shocked if Christian ideas and institutions were not significantly more active than Muslim ones in Canadian political discourse.

Why the focus on institutions? These sorts of social issues are contested at the grass-roots level. And at the grass-roots level, you'll find stronger opposition to liberal initiatives such as sex education, LGBT school alliances, and HPV vaccinations in communities of immigrants than in Canada as a whole.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Why the focus on institutions? These sorts of social issues are contested at the grass-roots level. And at the grass-roots level, you'll find stronger opposition to liberal initiatives such as sex education, LGBT school alliances, and HPV vaccinations in communities of immigrants than in Canada as a whole.

Because the views of Joe Blow (or Joe Singh or Joe Kim etc) from down the street are not likely to generate a newspaper article or television news segment (such as the one that started this thread) that in turn generates "bashing" by "the regressive left" (which is what I understood you to be complaining about.)

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I am curious to know: why do you think this matters? It is not really a question that is addressed directly by "the Bible" because it is not something that was deemed altogether very important to those who wrote about creation. It is a mistake to expect things from the Bible that it simply does not address—this is the source of so much Evangelical hermeneutical silliness in the first place.

because i'm pretty sure there is nothing mentioned of the existence of dinosaurs, the earths age in the billions, age of the universe, size of the universe, evolution etc. correct me if i'm wrong but these facts are ignored and even denied.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

because i'm pretty sure there is nothing mentioned of the existence of dinosaurs, the earths age in the billions, age of the universe, size of the universe, evolution etc. correct me if i'm wrong but these facts are ignored and even denied.

Why would ancient Semitic people living in the Levant have any reason to write about such things? How would they have even known about dinosaurs, geological ages, outer space, and the biochemical processes of reproduction and species propagation? One cannot "ignore" nor "deny" things that she or he lacks the capacity to know.

Your incredulity at their ignorance is just as off-putting and absurd as the bilblicist's insistence on the scientific veracity of the Old Testament. Raising questions that scripture never intended to address is the other side of a flat, literalistic, hermeneutical coin.