No, I don't think this team can win a cup. There isn't a player on the team who can take the team and put it on his back. There's no Iginla in his prime.
No goaltending, defence is solid, but the forwards as a whole are underwhelming. There's some good to great players, but no game changers. Not even Gaudreau is a true game changer.
They'll top out as maybe a conference finalist.
For me he changes a boring ass game where I sit on my ass to me spilling my beer on my lap.
To the OP question, yes and no. The potential is there, but not yet there to be a serious contender. They really need a goaltender to step up. Gillies injury really hurt the projections of management IMO. I think they had it in their minds that Gillies would have stepped up and taken the job this season, but that lost year of development set him back. Without that core goaltender I don't think the team is in a position to be called a true contender.
To the discussion of the team lacking a game breaker, I think that is a red herring. Not all teams have a Sidney Crosby. The Flames look every bit as good as the Kings or the Blackhawks when it comes to talent up front and on the blue line. The problem is in goal. Personally, I think the fortunes of this team hang on the performance of the goaltending, the emergence of Sam Bennett as a 2nd line center, and a young player like Jankowski or Foo surprising and filling a hole in the lineup, in that order. If those three things happen, this team is a serious contender. If two of them happen, they will be in the mix. If the first one doesn't happen, the other two will be irrelevant as Treliving has blown our expendable assets to build this team and will have to dip into assets he doesn't want to move to fill gaps. At that point we then have to hope that one of the goaltending prospects steps up and pulls a Mike Vernon.
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I think the current roster would fall short. If a guy like Bennett could find another gear, that would help. But I sort of agree with Kermitology in the regard that until the goaltending proves itself out and something else emerges up front that the Flames won't get to the pinnacle. The Kings with a lot of good pieces were a lower level playoff team for 3 years until they hired Sutter, but also traded for Jeff Carter. Once they got that extra forward, they pushed thru. I think the Flames still need to find that Jeff Carter type add up front. Another guy who can score 30 goals and drive a line.
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Not sure why everyone is still so high on Bennett. The only good thing coming out of Bennett is if Treliving can trade that potential and fetch a player that will make the core bigger and better, it's the only way to go. Otherwise, we can reminisce on his 4-goal game back when Hartley was the coach. The Bennett potential dwindles each passing year. Currently, the way I see it, the Flames are still small and soft up front. You can stack the back all you want, but you still need the forwards to do most of your scoring.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taco.vidal
Bennett is a dud. Trade him now while he still has value near that of his draft position. Jankowski is more likely to be anthing better than a third line centre.
Embarrassingly bad posts about Bennett displaying a shocking ignorance about his youth, skills and upside. CSharp demonstating continuing cluelessness.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 08-05-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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No, I don't think this team can win a cup. There isn't a player on the team who can take the team and put it on his back. There's no Iginla in his prime.
No goaltending, defence is solid, but the forwards as a whole are underwhelming. There's some good to great players, but no game changers. Not even Gaudreau is a true game changer.
They'll top out as maybe a conference finalist.
Gaudreau can be a game changer. He's proven it. How short are people's memories? It's baffling. You are guilty of underrating him after a subpar season where he was signed late and had an injury. Tkachuk will be a gamebreaking forward in the near future IMO. I think Bennett can still evolve into a game breaking forward as well. Monahan is such a great shooter. Backlund is an elite 2 way player. Ferland has deceptive skill and talent. Frolik is such a solid but unspectacular two way talent.
Calling the forwards "as a whole underwhelming" is being guilty of underrating their skill and talent. In fact I believe the opposite is true. Calgary has top 1/3 of the league depth at forward for next season and the continuing maturation of their young talent up front may quickly vault them into the top 5 within a year or two. Combine that with their top 5 defense and goaltending is the only big question heading into the next two seasons IMO. I'm a believer in Smith, I've seen him literally steal games over and over again in the past. It's not assured that he'll pan out for us but I think Treliving took as good of a gamble as any at that position for the upcoming years.
Flames are the strongest amd deepest they've been in the last 25 years or more. We went to the Cup Finals with a much weaker and thinner lineup so it's pretty obvious to me that we're a Stanley Cup contender starting next season.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 08-05-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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It is baffling. I must have completely forgotten about the time that these Flames won something.
They came 15th and were then swept in round 1. The Flames are into the part of the rebuild where success or failure is 100% results based. Moral victories and positive predictions for the future are worthless at this point.
Embarrassingly bad posts about Bennett displaying a shocking ignorance about his youth, skills and upside. CSharp demonstating continuing cluelessness.
Do we need to dig up your wonderful wisdom over the years? Why do you pretend your opinion is more worthy than others? Because you gave yourself a name on CP? You're not a "draft watcher" you're a fan like the rest of us, stop putting others down.
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Do we need to dig up your wonderful wisdom over the years? Why do you pretend your opinion is more worthy than others? Because you gave yourself a name on CP? You're not a "draft watcher" you're a fan like the rest of us, stop putting others down.
This true, but when you suggest there are no game breakers on this team, well you've just stepped off the deep end. No, we don't have a Conner McJesus, but we have players that can take control of a game and make it their own. There is no better player in the game at controlling a short handed situation than Johnny Hockey, and that includes Conner Mc####ingJesus. Flames fans have a horrible habit of selling their best players short.
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Do we need to dig up your wonderful wisdom over the years? Why do you pretend your opinion is more worthy than others? Because you gave yourself a name on CP? You're not a "draft watcher" you're a fan like the rest of us, stop putting others down.
What about what I said do you disagree with? Do you truly believe Bennett is a dud? Do you truly believe the Flames have no gamebreakers up front? Try to stick to the topic, your quick shift to personal attacks shows how little you have to contribute to the debate.
What about what I said do you disagree with? Do you truly believe Bennett is a dud? Do you truly believe the Flames have no gamebreakers up front? Try to stick to the topic, your quick shift to personal attacks shows how little you have to contribute to the debate.
You can call out poor or dissenting opinions without implicating other posters as "ignorant" and "clueless."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
You can call out poor or dissenting opinions without implicating other posters as "ignorant" and "clueless."
I dunno sometimes opinions are so far from reality that not using those kinds of words is sugar coating things. Sometimes opinions are truly ignorant and clueless. Is Bennett a dud? What do you make of the truth of that statement. Do you think that statement is defensible in the slightest? I think it's such an extreme statement that it's like saying the sky is green. It's like saying Gretzky wasn't great at hockey. To me it was a clearly false statement. Obviously untrue.
For example some of the things Trump says are truly ignorant and clueless. We seem to have no problem calling out those statements in the off topic board. Why wouldn't we call a spade a spade and point out ignorant hockey opinions? There are things that can be said as a hockey opinion that clearly aren't true. I think those two posts were so extreme in their unreality that they deserved to be called out as such.
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 08-05-2017 at 02:54 PM.
I dunno sometimes opinions are so far from reality that not using those kinds of words is sugar coating things. Sometimes opinions are truly ignorant and clueless. Is Bennett a dud? What do you make of the truth of that statement.
For example some of the things Trump says are truly ignorant and clueless. We seem to have no problem calling out those statements in the off topic board. Why wouldn't we call a spade a spade and point out ignorant hockey opinions? There are things that can be said as a hockey opinion that clearly aren't true. I think those two posts were so extreme in their unreality that they deserved to be called out as such.
For one thing Donald Trump is a public figure, CSharp is not. It may be a fine line, but there is a line between calling out content and calling out the poster. Sometimes you stray close to crossing that line.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
On paper we have a good chance to make some real noise in the west. GG has his system in place so it shouldn't take too long for the team to get back into the swing of things.
Its interesting to note - Brian Elliott said his rough start was re-learning how the guys play compared to St.Louis in the beginning. I wonder if you really run with Smith in the pre-season to get him seasoned with the team so he's game ready and has a feel for how the team plays.
I was a big Elliott fan. Problem is he has an excuse for everything. Sometimes you just need to own the fact you played like like ####.
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I was a big Elliott fan. Problem is he has an excuse for everything. Sometimes you just need to own the fact you played like like ####.
Agreed.
Even on the back-breaking goal he allowed in Game 4, he's said several times since then he wouldn't have played it any differently.
How the hell do you say that when you let in yet ANOTHER terrible goal? Have the guts to say you blew it.
I can't recall which CP member posted this stat, but I saved it because of how telling it was:
After the first round of the playoffs there were 23 low danger shots that resulted in goals. 7 of those were on Elliott. No other goalie allowed more than 2.
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I actually disagree that is all about goaltending. Pretty average goaltending can get you very far.
What missing is either the sublime defenseman or the game breaking forward. Giordano's a great player but he's slowing down and while Hamilton and Brodie are great players they don't have the take a game over dominance that you need in a cup contender.
If you don't have that player you then need at least one game breaker. Gaudreau is the closest we have but there were some extremely worrying signs from him last season and especially last playoffs. Patrick Kane he is not.
All the other forward pieces are nice but there's not one player that can take a game over.
Unfortunately as I see it, flames will be a good team but not a great team. Think New York Rangers or Anaheim Ducks in the last 5 years. There will always be another team with just that much more game breaking talent to push them over the edge.
If you don't have that player you then need at least one game breaker. Gaudreau is the closest we have but there were some extremely worrying signs from him last season and especially last playoffs. Patrick Kane he is not.
Again leaving aside the important context that we're talking about a young player just three seasons into his NHL career with room to improve and mature,
Gaudreau did struggle in the playoffs this year.
As did then-reigning Art Ross winner Pat Kane.
They had identical stat lines in the playoffs this year with just 2 points in 4 games as their teams were swept. It happens sometimes to the best of players.
With the context that we're looking at a young player who struggled through his first contract dispute and an injury this season, I think the rational view-point is that we can expect Gaudreau to rebound and continue to improve as a player.
The suggestions he's topped out and can be classified as being a tier short of being a game breaker by several people in this thread is really an extreme negative viewpoint. He's shown the ability to be a game-breaker very early in his young career.
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Do you think this team's core has Stanley Cup potential?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinordi
...What missing is either the sublime defenseman or the game breaking forward. Giordano's a great player but he's slowing down and while Hamilton and Brodie are great players they don't have the take a game over dominance that you need in a cup contender...
Giordano sure doesn't look like he is slowing down, and Hamilton at 24-years-old with a +50-point season already on the books looks to be the definition of a burgeoning "sublime defenceman."
I think you sell the Flames forwards short, but you sell their defensemen even shorter.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
