EFF gets exemption, jailbreaking a phone now legal in the US!

[photon]

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/07/26...ormous-vi.html

The Electronic Frontier Foundation drove three deep wedges into the US prohibition on breaking DRM today. EFF had applied to the Copyright Office to grant exemptions permitting the cracking of DRM in three cases: first, to "jailbreak" a mobile device, such as an iPhone, where DRM is used to prevent phone owners from running software of their own choosing; second, to allow video remix artists to break the DRM on DVDs in order to take short excerpts for mashups posted to YouTube and other sharing sites; finally EFF got the Copyright Office to renew its ruling that made it illegal to unlock cellphones so that they can be used with any carrier.

Very interesting! We'll see how Apple and the like respond.

Ironicially, just as the US government is starting to reconsider this wisdom of this approach, other governments are being arm-twisted by the US trade representative into adopting it -- for example, Canada's pending Bill C31, a copyright law that was practically ghost-written by the American entertainment lobby and delivered after the Prime Minister's office handed down the edict to "Make the Americans happy."

Lol...

[photon]

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...e-fair-use.ars

Another article covering all the exemptions.

[yads]

Your quote is wrong, The site says '...to renew its ruling that made it legal to unlock cellphones...'

[HeartsOfFire]

Bill C-32, actually.

And this ruling only makes it legal to jailbreak devices and break DRM for the purposes of research and security improvements.

[FanIn80]

Apple's response: "So what if it's legal? We've never tried to sue anyone for unlocking their iPhone. It will still void your warranty though."

Apple's goal has always been to insure that our customers have a great experience with their iPhone and we know that jailbreaking can severely degrade the experience. As we've said before, the vast majority of customers do not jailbreak their iPhones as this can violate the warranty and can cause the iPhone to become unstable and not work reliably.

The apparent discrepancy comes from the fact that the Library of Congress decision today simply means that users can not be charged with violations of the DMCA for jailbreaking their iOS devices, a tactic Apple had never bothered to employ in attempting to squash the practice. Apple remains free, however, to discourage users by other means, including voiding product warranties due to violations of the terms and conditions all users must agree to before using their devices and software.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/26/...phone-warranty

I don't see a problem with this. They have the right to not fix your phone if you jailbreak it and are stupid enough to screw up your battery life in the process. It's no different than modding an Xbox. If I mod it to allow me to play pirated games and then it red-rings... should I expect to be able to send it in to Microsoft for free repairs?


Edit: The really good news in this ruling, though, is hopefully we can start to see some more professional jailbreaking solutions than some of the hack-jobs out there. Also... it might be legal to jailbreak a mobile device now, but it's still very much illegal to steal software to install on that device (which is still the #1 reason for the jailbreak in the first place).

Edit: The bad news, of course, is that we're going to see an awful lot of scam artists and VB-hacks trying to make a lot of money off this. I think it's going to be pretty fun to watch everything unfold. Fortunately, I'm able to figure out for myself if something I install is going to cause me problems... I feel bad for the people who don't have a clue how any of this stuff works. Mind you, they probably don't care about jailbreaking anyway.

[photon]

Depends on how the Xbox is being modded. If it's a physical mod of course not, but if it's a software modification then sure they should fix it. Should they be able to refuse a warranty because I played a specific game?

This might lead to an interesting court battle, Apple can say they will void your warranty in their EULA, but just because it's in the EULA doesn't mean it'll stand up in court. It doesn't seem reasonable that Apple would withhold a warranty on the physical integrity of a device based on it running different software, or at least the onus should be on Apple to prove that the software caused the defect. EULA's aren't a carte blanche to say anything they want, it still has to fit within the law.

Take a car warranty, VW can't void my warranty because I put in an aftermarket stereo. If they suspect the stereo blew something out they have to have reasonable grounds to refuse the warranty.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by photon

Depends on how the Xbox is being modded. If it's a physical mod of course not, but if it's a software modification then sure they should fix it.

This might lead to an interesting court battle, Apple can say they will void your warranty in their EULA, but just because it's in the EULA doesn't mean it'll stand up in court. It doesn't seem reasonable that Apple would withhold a warranty on the physical integrity of a device based on it running different software, or at least the onus should be on Apple to prove that the software caused the defect.

Take a car warranty, VW can't void my warranty because I put in an aftermarket stereo. If they suspect the stereo blew something out they have to have reasonable grounds to refuse the warranty.

I think software integrity is a very valid point. Look at a MacBook. It gets 7-9 hours of battery on a single charge when it's running OS X. That same battery drops down to 3-4 hours when it's running Windows. Should Apple have to support people who choose to run Windows on their laptop? No, because Windows isn't their software... why would they support it? If I blew the motherboard in my Dell laptop because I installed a hacked version of Mac OS and ran it for 6 months without realizing the fans weren't working... there's no way Dell would support that.

Software has a huge impact on the performance of hardware. If I mod my Xbox, whether it's software or hardware, I don't expect Microsoft to fix it for free if it breaks down. What if the software mod I install does something to the fan speeds that I don't know about, and 3 months later the console red-rings from overheating. Is that MS's fault? Should it be covered by their warranty? I don't think so.

Same with the iPhone. If jailbreaking my iPhone and installing unsigned apps from Cydia causes the battery to become overworked, and 3 months later it stops holding a charge... should I expect Apple to replace my battery for free? It wasn't their software that screwed up the battery, nor was it even an app that they delivered to me through their App Store.

I think it would be pretty cut and dried, and not very interesting at all. I imagine there's a ton of existing precedence backing up companies whose customers messed around with their products and expected to get them fixed for free.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by photon

It doesn't seem reasonable that Apple would withhold a warranty on the physical integrity of a device based on it running different software

I can think of many cases where its reasonable - look at all the overclock utils for the Palm Pre and Android phones. Voltage tweaking utils for desktop/laptop processors. How about the engine management software on vehicles?

There are plenty of cases on modern hardware where firmware can damage or negatively impact hardware.

[calculoso]

It's their fault because they designed a phone where the battery isn't field replaceable.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by calculoso

It's their fault because they designed a phone where the battery isn't field replaceable.

I hope you're just being sarcastic.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by calculoso

It's their fault because they designed a phone where the battery isn't field replaceable.

Maybe I missed something but are you claiming that you should be able to jailbreak a phone because the battery is not replaceable?

[Rathji]

hi double post

[photon]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think software integrity is a very valid point. Look at a MacBook. It gets 7-9 hours of battery on a single charge when it's running OS X. That same battery drops down to 3-4 hours when it's running Windows. Should Apple have to support people who choose to run Windows on their laptop?

Who said anything about supporting? We're talking about warranty. Should Apple void the warranty on your MacBook because you run Linux on it? Because you run MS Office instead of their productivity software?

Yes? No? It's the exact same thing.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

If I blew the motherboard in my Dell laptop because I installed a hacked version of Mac OS and ran it for 6 months without realizing the fans weren't working... there's no way Dell would support that.

Well no of course not, but the reason they refuse the warranty is because it overheated because of something you did.. just like they wouldn't warranty it if you stuck a pencil in the fan.

So why doesn't Dell refuse all warranty calls for people that run anything but the pre-loaded software, they could have been running a fan controller software that stopped all the fans.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Software has a huge impact on the performance of hardware. If I mod my Xbox, whether it's software or hardware, I don't expect Microsoft to fix it for free if it breaks down. What if the software mod I install does something to the fan speeds that I don't know about, and 3 months later the console red-rings from overheating. Is that MS's fault? Should it be covered by their warranty? I don't think so.

It's not an all or nothing question, but usually the onus is on the warranty provider to demonstrate that the product has been abused, not assumed that it has been abused and refuse all warranty.

Why doesn't Apple refuse warranty to anyone that loads anything but Apple authored software on the MacBook?

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Same with the iPhone. If jailbreaking my iPhone and installing unsigned apps from Cydia causes the battery to become overworked, and 3 months later it stops holding a charge... should I expect Apple to replace my battery for free? It wasn't their software that screwed up the battery, nor was it even an app that they delivered to me through their App Store.

Of course not, they could refuse warranty based on a specific case, just like Dell would refuse a warranty because you thought water helped, or you stuck a pencil in the fan, or whatever.

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I think it would be pretty cut and dried, and not very interesting at all. I imagine there's a ton of existing precedence backing up companies whose customers messed around with their products and expected to get them fixed for free.

There is existing law, I brought up a specific case with vehicles.. the law says the onus is on the company to prove that the modification caused the damage in order to refuse the warranty.

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I can think of many cases where its reasonable - look at all the overclock utils for the Palm Pre and Android phones. Voltage tweaking utils for desktop/laptop processors. How about the engine management software on vehicles?

There are plenty of cases on modern hardware where firmware can damage or negatively impact hardware.

That's true, and you are right in those cases it would be valid to deny warranty.

[FanIn80]

I don't get what's so different about what Scott said vs what I said.

My point was that modifiying the operating system on the phone to circumvent the DRM (in addition to installing untested applications using unkown third-party APIs) could degrade system performance and cause undue undue stress on the hardware.

His point was that overclocking or undervolting could also cause undue stress on the hardware.

What makes one OK, but the other not OK? To me, it just seems like similar means to a similar end. They're both firmware modifications.

Anyway, this is a moot argument. Apple's stance has always been that jailbreaking CAN void the warranty... not WILL. It's always on a case-by-case basis. The opinion that someone who modifies a product's firmware should expect zero support is only my own.

[photon]

The difference is you said it was cut and dried, and that modifying the OS to circumvent the DRM could cause problems... It wouldn't be the circumvention that causes the problem, it's what's run afterwards that could potentially be the problem, so it isn't cut and dried, it's dependent on what software is run.

Laws exist to protect people as well as corporations.. the problem is that laws are doing plenty to protect companies and facilitate their control over people, but aren't doing enough for the people. So companies can write their own laws, call it an EULA, and take away your warranty or even make your purchase inoperable on a whim (since they can change their EULA on a whim, and you have to accept the new one to keep using the product).

The consumer needs to be protected, which is why there's rules for things like warranties. Yes if you abuse your product you should not get a warranty, but it has to be abuse, and like anything else it should be innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around which is what this is.