[Signing] Flames sign RW Michael Frolik to 5 year deal ($4.3 mil aav)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by New Era

Where does it say that? Didn't read that at all. There were plenty of other teams interested in Frolik, including the Penguins.



That is why the Jets were reportedly pissed off at the Frolik signing? It was reported Frolik took less money to play in Calgary. The Jets offered more, but Frolik went where he thought opportunity was better. Also, Stafford was signed before the free agency period. He also signed for a shorted term. Frolik was still clearly in the Jets plans and they hoped he would accept their offer.

What did the Jets offer? Where was it reported that he took less money from Calgary?

Do you have any solid rumor that you can reference that the Jets were offering Frolik anything after Stafford signed?

IIRC the Jets still have an internal spending limit.

They just got rid of their 2 worst Contracts Bogosian and Kane and might be a bit more wary with handing out longer term deals to support players.

They are working on Ladd and Byfuglien getting extended as they are UFA after 2015-16. Trio of quality RFA's coming Trouba, Scheifele and Lowry that they may or may not consider part of their core going forward.

[1Nite]

Originally Posted by calgaryboy

Hello guys!

Interview with Frolik on one Czech sport website today:

http://isport.blesk.cz/clanek/hokej-...-15-minut.html

Little recap:

-had like 15 mins on decison, take it or leave it
- really happy about terms of the contract, happy about the money of course too
-was in touch with WPG too, but Calgary won in the end
-had several talks with Flames executives before the draft, Hartley told him that he likes players like him
- Flames were really interested, said it was always very pleasant talk
- talked with Jiri about Flames, Hudler had nothing but praise for the city and organization
-thinks this contract is deserved for his hard work
-glad that also Hudler has a baby like him
-watched Flames in play-offs, liked the C of Red very much, thinks CGY has even better fans than WPG
- thinks he is really versatile and that it was the main factor why Flames were interested so much, can play any given role
- glad he stays in Canada, in a city with tradition
-would like to win another Stanley Cup......

some more things about Czech national team, World Cup etc.........

----------------------------
I really think Frolik will be Hudler 2.0 and will have his best NHL seasons in Flames uniform!!!!!

Go FLAMES!!!! Treliving is a master of GM!!!!! :-)

Greetings from Czech republic

I heard a big determing factor of him signing with the Flames.

-Chance to go on Dragons Den to show his and Jiri's dating app "Czech Mates"

[getbak]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

I heard a big determing factor of him signing with the Flames.

-Chance to go on Dragons Den to show his and Jiri's dating app "Czech Mates"

Have you seen their wives? I would definitely sign up for that.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I believe it is a basic truth in Hockey.... When a UFA signs with a team he is getting the best deal possible and that no other team wanted to offer him any more money or term.

A UFA that doesn't work out simply can't be dumped until the very end of their contract usually as a desperate playoff rental.

Try and come up with an example where a player that was signed as a UFA was traded for an upgrade.

When Cammalleri burnt his bridges in Montreal they had to take back the worst Flame contract... Bourque.

Brian Campbell who was a big UFA signing for Chicago and key to their first SC win .... The Hawks had to pay 10M of Olez's salary to move Campbell out of town.

We were originally talking about the possible need to make room in the roster sometime in the future, which is a very different issue than bad contracts you need to get rid of. Hockey trades, not cap dumps.


As for your examples, those contracts are on a completely different level. Froliks $4.3M is 2nd liner money these days. Mid-level UFA's get traded every year, even now when trades are becoming more rare. If Frolik ends up being more of a 3rd liner, he'll only be overpaid by something like $1.5M. Even if you want to trade him, that's not going to be a huge issue for most teams.

Most UFA's also finish their contracts without anyone ever worrying about them.

Besides, 95% of the time even bad contracts get you something like a low pick in return. Guys like David Jones and Jay Bouwmeester are examples that guys that underperform will have takers in a trade, as long as they're not completely useless. Frolik is not the type of guy that's very likely to become completely useless. The returns might not be much, but since we gave up nothing to sign Frolik the returns would all be gravy anyway.

IMO there's clear risk factors as to what kind of players become terrible contracts. I think the most typical ones are one dimensional players that were paid to put up points (Semins and Cheechoos), or older guys that are given retirement contracts and lose their speed before the contracts run out (Chara). Or guys that are paid like superstars but fail to deliver. (Heatley, Phaneuf.)

That's not Frolik.

Frolik will only be 32 by the time the contract runs out, he's reported to be a consistent performer, versatile, can put up some points and can defend. If you feel signing a guy like that is too risky, you essentially can't ever sign anybody. He can end being overpaid, but at 4.3M I really can't see that contract becoming a huge headache.

...I hope I didn't just jinx it...

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by calgaryboy

-had like 15 mins on decison, take it or leave it

I read this, then look at the timing of the Kessel trade and the announcement of this signing - I think we were way more into the Kessel situation than has been talked about.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I believe it is a basic truth in Hockey.... When a UFA signs with a team he is getting the best deal possible and that no other team wanted to offer him any more money or term.

A UFA that doesn't work out simply can't be dumped until the very end of their contract usually as a desperate playoff rental.

Try and come up with an example where a player that was signed as a UFA was traded for an upgrade.

When Cammalleri burnt his bridges in Montreal they had to take back the worst Flame contract... Bourque.

Brian Campbell who was a big UFA signing for Chicago and key to their first SC win .... The Hawks had to pay 10M of Olez's salary to move Campbell out of town.

According to Frolik's Czech report the only teams that were interested was the Jets and the Flames.

The Jets got Stafford for 2 years @4.35 M. Stafford was a top line player in the Jet's run to the playoffs, much more of a factor than Frolik. I wouldn't be overly surprised if the Jets gave Frolik and Stafford a similar offer and the first guy to accept got it.

So what you are saying is that any UFA if waived the day after signing would pass through waivers?

Although this should be correct it's obviously not true. Players have preferences for destinations, differing tax regimes give different net incomes, role on the new team, coaches, weather, etc.

What gets teams into trouble is paying for unrealized performance in younger players usually rfas. Or paying for past performance that isn't likely to be sustainable. The Frolik deal doesn't seem to be either. The Gio deal has risk of this.

People bring up jbo as a bad deal but at any point during his time in Calgary had he been waived he would have been picked up.

[FlamesAddiction]

I doubt that bully offers are that rare. It prevents the player from using your generous offer as a way to trigger a bidding war. I would be shocked if other GMs don't do it. It's a pretty common tactic in many businesses.

[CKPThunder]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I believe it is a basic truth in Hockey.... When a UFA signs with a team he is getting the best deal possible and that no other team wanted to offer him any more money or term.

A UFA that doesn't work out simply can't be dumped until the very end of their contract usually as a desperate playoff rental.

Try and come up with an example where a player that was signed as a UFA was traded for an upgrade.

When Cammalleri burnt his bridges in Montreal they had to take back the worst Flame contract... Bourque.

Brian Campbell who was a big UFA signing for Chicago and key to their first SC win .... The Hawks had to pay 10M of Olez's salary to move Campbell out of town.

According to Frolik's Czech report the only teams that were interested was the Jets and the Flames.

The Jets got Stafford for 2 years @4.35 M. Stafford was a top line player in the Jet's run to the playoffs, much more of a factor than Frolik. I wouldn't be overly surprised if the Jets gave Frolik and Stafford a similar offer and the first guy to accept got it.

The two that came into my head in the past 10 years or so are:

1. Ryan Smyth for Kyle Quincey +

2. Scott Gomez + for Chris Higgins, Ryan McDonagh +

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

According to Frolik's Czech report the only teams that were interested was the Jets and the Flames.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2015/06/2...e-agent-offers

The five-day interview period for free agents opened on Thursday and Frolik met with six interested suitors in Florida, site of the 2015 NHL Draft.

That was just day one of the five day window.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

What did the Jets offer? Where was it reported that he took less money from Calgary?

Do you have any solid rumor that you can reference that the Jets were offering Frolik anything after Stafford signed?

IIRC the Jets still have an internal spending limit.

They just got rid of their 2 worst Contracts Bogosian and Kane and might be a bit more wary with handing out longer term deals to support players.

They are working on Ladd and Byfuglien getting extended as they are UFA after 2015-16. Trio of quality RFA's coming Trouba, Scheifele and Lowry that they may or may not consider part of their core going forward.

I think it's more of the fact that the Jets were probably only offering a 1-2 year deal to Frolik because they didn't want to give him term due to the fact that they have so many up and coming young prospects knocking on the door for a spot on the Jets' roster. They had every intention of signing him if it was short term.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

The two that came into my head in the past 10 years or so are:

1. Ryan Smyth for Kyle Quincey +

2. Scott Gomez + for Chris Higgins, Ryan McDonagh +

Smyth was making just over 6M / yr Priessing (the + from LA) was getting paid 3M /year and wasn't playing for LA.... and had 2 years left on his contract. Smyth was basically a 3M cost to LA.

You have me on Gomez.... Gomez was 7M Higgins was an RFA coming off a 23 pt season making 2M so it was a bit of a salary dump . But the Candiens obviously thought the UFa contract was okay.... Found the details of this trade on TOP 5 WORST MONTREAL CANADIENS TRADES

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think it's more of the fact that the Jets were probably only offering a 1-2 year deal to Frolik because they didn't want to give him term due to the fact that they have so many up and coming young prospects knocking on the door for a spot on the Jets' roster. They had every intention of signing him if it was short term.

I certainly hope not. Players like Frolik just don't grow on trees. He was a great two-way player, and was used on the 2nd line. To be honest, losing Frolik was the most painful departure of the brief history of the Jets 2.0 franchise.

Flames fans are going to love Frolik.

[bluck]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I certainly hope not. Players like Frolik just don't grow on trees. He was a great two-way player, and was used on the 2nd line. To be honest, losing Frolik was the most painful departure of the brief history of the Jets 2.0 franchise.

Flames fans are going to love Frolik.

I thought he was primarily on the first line with Ladd and Little, not the second for most of the season

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Itse

We were originally talking about the possible need to make room in the roster sometime in the future, which is a very different issue than bad contracts you need to get rid of. Hockey trades, not cap dumps.


As for your examples, those contracts are on a completely different level. Froliks $4.3M is 2nd liner money these days. Mid-level UFA's get traded every year, even now when trades are becoming more rare. If Frolik ends up being more of a 3rd liner, he'll only be overpaid by something like $1.5M. Even if you want to trade him, that's not going to be a huge issue for most teams.

Most UFA's also finish their contracts without anyone ever worrying about them.

Besides, 95% of the time even bad contracts get you something like a low pick in return. Guys like David Jones and Jay Bouwmeester are examples that guys that underperform will have takers in a trade, as long as they're not completely useless. Frolik is not the type of guy that's very likely to become completely useless. The returns might not be much, but since we gave up nothing to sign Frolik the returns would all be gravy anyway.

IMO there's clear risk factors as to what kind of players become terrible contracts. I think the most typical ones are one dimensional players that were paid to put up points (Semins and Cheechoos), or older guys that are given retirement contracts and lose their speed before the contracts run out (Chara). Or guys that are paid like superstars but fail to deliver. (Heatley, Phaneuf.)

That's not Frolik.

Frolik will only be 32 by the time the contract runs out, he's reported to be a consistent performer, versatile, can put up some points and can defend. If you feel signing a guy like that is too risky, you essentially can't ever sign anybody. He can end being overpaid, but at 4.3M I really can't see that contract becoming a huge headache.

...I hope I didn't just jinx it...

Good post...

Maybe some UFA's run their length but almost all the buyouts were UFA contracts.


Ironic your use of David Jones as an example....

1) He was traded for Tanquay who quit as a Flame and had a similar over paid contract running for 3 more years.

2) He was the same age as Frolik is now when he signed his 4x4 deal. He had just had 2 solid seasons 45 and 38 pts ... His prime assets were his size and speed. He was able to play in the top 6. Both players were coming off 1 year show-me contracts... Jones making 2.5M and Frolik 3.3M.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by bluck

I thought he was primarily on the first line with Ladd and Little, not the second for most of the season

The main line was Ladd-Little-Wheeler.

The second line usually was composed of: Perreault/Stafford-Scheifele-Frolik

[Da_Chief]

If you had a lisp you'd say lad's little wheeler. Otherwise it'd be Ladd's Little Weiner?

[devo22]

Most frequent line combinations last season, according to leftwinglock:

ANDREW LADD       BRYAN LITTLE      BLAKE WHEELER      13.47%
ANDREW LADD       BRYAN LITTLE      MICHAEL FROLIK      7.93%
MICHAEL FROLIK    MARK SCHEIFELE    MATHIEU PERREAULT   6.97%
BLAKE WHEELER     MARK SCHEIFELE    DREW STAFFORD       4.65%
EVANDER KANE      MARK SCHEIFELE    BLAKE WHEELER       3.53%
ADAM LOWRY        MICHAEL FROLIK    ANDREW LADD         3.32%
CHRIS THORBURN    JIM SLATER        ANTHONY PELUSO      3.10%
ADAM LOWRY        MATT HALISCHUK    EVANDER KANE        3.05%
LEE STEMPNIAK     JIM SLATER        JIRI TLUSTY         2.28%
TJ GALIARDI       JIM SLATER        ANTHONY PELUSO      2.16%

[White Out 403]

I tend to think the was a case of Chevy wanting a shorter deal, or, wanting to spend only so much on a 4 year deal. The Jets weren't in a position to offer a substantial 5 year deal when they have so much drafted talent that will be coming up... Why lock up cap space?

Still sucks though. Great signing for Flames. He's a very useful player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I tend to think the was a case of Chevy wanting a shorter deal, or, wanting to spend only so much on a 4 year deal. The Jets weren't in a position to offer a substantial 5 year deal when they have so much drafted talent that will be coming up... Why lock up cap space?

Still sucks though. Great signing for Flames. He's a very useful player.

That is the very definition of a team that will forever be in a perpetual rebuild.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The main line was Ladd-Little-Wheeler.

The second line usually was composed of: Perreault/Stafford-Scheifele-Frolik

On the Jets would be a similar situation to when the Flames had Iginla. Whatever line Wheeler was on was the #1 line.

Logically Frolik was at very best playing the 2nd line.... and only then when Byfuglien was forced back to play defense otherwise Frolik was the 3rd line RW.

When Stafford joined the Jets the #1 line was Stafford Scheifele and Wheeler and they accounted for basically all the scoring for the last 25 games. Little and Perrault were out. Lowry was the #2 C with Frolik and Ladd on the Wings.



Frolik got as much ice time as he could handle as the Jets were having trouble icing a NHL line-up...They picked up Stempniak and Tlusty to have a 3rd line.

The Flames have a much stronger interchangeable 7-14 set of forwards... Frolik won't be getting as much default ice-time as he did with the Jets.