Question for chartered accountants!

[Kipperriffic]

Hey fellow CPs
I was wondering if anyone is, or knows in detail about, Chartered Accounting!
Specifically, when you are applying for CA Office, what kind of work experience are they expecting from you before applying? And how much work exp should you have as an business undergrad? And what was your GPA as a BCom student? (I imagine GPA isn't worth as much as work exp? or am I wrong?)

I've read though all the appropriate accounting websites but I just wanted a personal account from someone about how they went about getting into CA

[squiggs96]

Please change the title of the thread to capitalize the first letters of Chartered Accountants.

There are quite a few of us CAs on here. I'm guessing most of our work experience was different when we applied. For myself, I worked as a sous chef before going into business. During undergrad I worked as a server/bartender and I did a co-op position at a Big 4. In my new hire group I was with two people who lived at home and never had a job before in their lives.

Your GPA isn't the most important thing, but it is important. I would guess if you had a B average you are fine. I had a 3.91 out of 4.00. Each firm is a little different. Some put more emphasis on grades, others on work experience, some in sports participation. I saw one guy who was hired because he was a hockey goalie and they needed someone.

When applying, remember that there are hundreds of other people just like you applying. They are looking for things to toss your resume out of the file. Although they sound simple, spell check your resume, don't exaggerate, put the correct firm name on each one you send out, keep your resume to one page and for the love of God stop saying you are a people person and you are crazy passionate about becoming a CA.

[Kipperriffic]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Please change the title of the thread to capitalize the first letters of Chartered Accountants.

There are quite a few of us CAs on here. I'm guessing most of our work experience was different when we applied. For myself, I worked as a sous chef before going into business. During undergrad I worked as a server/bartender and I did a co-op position at a Big 4. In my new hire group I was with two people who lived at home and never had a job before in their lives.

Your GPA isn't the most important thing, but it is important. I would guess if you had a B average you are fine. I had a 3.91 out of 4.00. Each firm is a little different. Some put more emphasis on grades, others on work experience, some in sports participation. I saw one guy who was hired because he was a hockey goalie and they needed someone.

When applying, remember that there are hundreds of other people just like you applying. They are looking for things to toss your resume out of the file. Although they sound simple, spell check your resume, don't exaggerate, put the correct firm name on each one you send out, keep your resume to one page and for the love of God stop saying you are a people person and you are crazy passionate about becoming a CA.

Is this a serious reply?? What firm did you go into ?

[GreenLantern]

chartered accountant firms are quite a neat little thing, yessir I love those chartered accountants.

chartered accountant.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

chartered accountant firms are quite a neat little thing, yessir I love those chartered accountants.

chartered accountant.

You're as witty as a mime.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Kipperriffic

Is this a serious reply?? What firm did you go into?

I'm not sure what you don't think is serious about it. I literally have no clue.

I worked at KPMG.

[calf]

Squiggs has it about right - be honest and don't embellish.

It's an entry level position right out of university...firms are understanding that you very well may have not worked in an office every summer during your undergrad. That being said, if you've been a Trainee at McDonalds for 5 years and haven't shown any sort of advancement/growth, that'll be looked at unfavorably.

Typically it's a balancing act between work experience and GPA. If you've been working 20 hours a week and being a part of clubs/volunteering, a 3.3 GPA would be ok. If you work only during the summer, and just go to school during the semesters, you should have at least a 3.5 (granted it's been ~5 years since I've been involved in any sort of recruiting activities at a firm).

Along the clubs/volunteering lines - only put it if you've made it a regular habit, and have actively participated. If you put the one event you volunteered at last week, it looks like resume padding.

Also - in September, go to as many recruiting events as possible, meet as many people, and get noticed.

[Kipperriffic]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I'm not sure what you don't think is serious about it. I literally have no clue.

Nevermind that. my bad

[Kipperriffic]

I actually have a 4yr BSc but I decided to change direction a little late...during those 4 yrs the nature of my work was really just 3 summers of research. Other than that I don't have any other exp. I'll do my BCom After Degree in 1.5 yrs starting fall2012, and it is during this time that I want to have some work exp.(and this coming summer of course) However, since I'm going to be doing 15 courses in 1.5 yrs - the amount of work won't be a lot by winter2014 due to heavy course load.

squiggs96 may I ask exactly how many hours you had put in work and what was your position at your job before you applied to KPMG? thanks

[geos]

Get ready to work a ridiculous amount for nothing for awhile. It does pay in the end, if you're good (which is the key to success in all education paths), but you'll give up some of the best years of your life for essientially free.

Good things take sacrifice of course, but just be aware of what you're getting yourself into. It's a respected profession and none in that profession are respected more (deservedly or otherwise) than CAs.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by geos

Get ready to work a ridiculous amount for nothing for awhile. It does pay in the end, if you're good (which is the key to success in all education paths), but you'll give up some of the best years of your life for essientially free.

Good things take sacrifice of course, but just be aware of what you're getting yourself into. It's a respected profession and none in that profession are respected more (deservedly or otherwise) than CAs.

If memory serves me right, I don't think you're a CA.I think you even said you'd pick a newly designated CMA over a newly designated CA.

Yes, most CA students work a lot of hours in their first few years, but so do many other professions. It's because you are learning and training as well as working. You also don't work for nothing. It's not a huge salary, but at some firms you can bank your overtime to be used in the summer when you are studying and they pay for all of your CASB courses and exams on the first go round.

For the first while it was actually way less work than I was used to. In undergrad I spent about 30 hours per week at campus, 40 hours studying and another 40 bartending. When I started articling I had to work about 50 hours a week and maybe up to 60 in busy season. This was so much more relaxing than the 110 hours I put into work and school.

Like most fields of work, they don't hire you to be the president and give you a six figure salary right out of university. You definitely don't give up these years for free. You get paid a salary, get training and get to take with you a CV and knowledge to your next job or your next position within the firm. Just because they are intangible, doesn't mean they are not valuable. When you are offered a job as a controller, VP, etc. these are the rewards for putting in hours and dedication. Your twenties are not the best years of your life. If they were, your last sixty are surely going to be disappointing. The CA profession is hard, but if it was easy everyone would do it and/or it wouldn't be as highly regarded. You get compensated for your output.

[Northendzone]

i have heard the the best thing about being a Ca - besides working with numbers and spreadsheets and whatnot are finally being able to score with the chicks who dig accountants......

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i have heard the the best thing about being a Ca - besides working with numbers and spreadsheets and whatnot are finally being able to score with the chicks who dig accountants......

Fun and true story: For my co-op interview the female HR manager asked me why I wanted to be an accountant. Without thinking I blurted out, "Because chicks dig accountants". There was an awkward pause for about five seconds before she burst out laughing. During the five seconds, I was already thinking of what firm I would apply at next because that was a terrible idea. I was hired the next day by them.

Reality: Accountant chicks dig accountants, but mostly because they have no exposure to any other person outside of work.

[Kybosh]

Compared with the sausage fest that is O&G, public accounting is a veritable oasis of eligible women.

[eddly]

I finished my undergrad with a 3.25 gpa. I worked many nights during school and I also had/have a young family (three children by the end of undergrad). I have two degrees - Molecular Biology and Biochemistry and a Business degree with a focus in Accounting of all things. Grades are important, but you also need communication skills. If you are incredibly shy but have a 4.0, you likely will not find a position with a CA firm.

It is assumed that you have a grasp of accounting, what recruiters are really looking for is your communications skills and how well you would work in a team environment. If you have no relevant work or volunteer experience, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage, but it isn't the end of the world.

I generally only work 40 hours a week, unless of course we're up against a tight deadline. The stories of 80 hour work weeks is generally for those fortunate to be working in Toronto... a little more relaxed in BC (however BC also has the lowest salary for CA students in Canada).

[geos]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

If memory serves me right, I don't think you're a CA.I think you even said you'd pick a newly designated CMA over a newly designated CA.

My personal opinion doesn't really matter to the OP. What matters is what industry as a broader group thinks and they think that the CA is a premium, so if the guy wants the most opportunities, he should do the CA route. Whether that's justified or not.

And no, I'm not a CA (or an accountant) but I am a finance person that works with them for much of my day. So I'm pretty familiar.

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Yes, most CA students work a lot of hours in their first few years, but so do many other professions. It's because you are learning and training as well as working. You also don't work for nothing. It's not a huge salary, but at some firms you can bank your overtime to be used in the summer when you are studying and they pay for all of your CASB courses and exams on the first go round.

For the first while it was actually way less work than I was used to. In undergrad I spent about 30 hours per week at campus, 40 hours studying and another 40 bartending. When I started articling I had to work about 50 hours a week and maybe up to 60 in busy season. This was so much more relaxing than the 110 hours I put into work and school.

Don't disagree with any of this.

Originally Posted by squiggs96

Like most fields of work, they don't hire you to be the president and give you a six figure salary right out of university. You definitely don't give up these years for free. You get paid a salary, get training and get to take with you a CV and knowledge to your next job or your next position within the firm. Just because they are intangible, doesn't mean they are not valuable.

Salaries in CA firms are less than industry for entry level grunts. See here: http://haskayne.ucalgary.ca/files/ha...y%20Report.pdf

Articling students make about 20% less than other accounting types. And they work more.

I'm not saying this guy shouldn't become a CA because of this though... he just needs to be aware of what he's doing.

Originally Posted by squiggs96

The CA profession is hard, but if it was easy everyone would do it and/or it wouldn't be as highly regarded. You get compensated for your output.

And that's exactly what I was trying to say. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your defensive tone or whatever here, but I was being supportive of the CA program. Note what I said at the end... no credential is more respected than the CA. It's going to be a ton of work but you'll get a good credential out of it.

People just need to be aware of the inputs and outputs. There are a ton of ways to have success (and success isn't all about the dollars either) in accounting/finance other than the CA route. But it's a very good route if you're ok with the time, effort and sacrifices (financially and otherwise) that you'll have to make.

That was my point. I know when I was in B-school and attending recruiting events for the Big4, they make it sound so much better than it really is in terms of work environment, at least from my perspective. I had Big4 offers upon grad and I decided to go the corporate route. That was a REALLY good choice for me. But it's not a good choice for others. Of my class that I knew, about half of the CA route guys are doing "well" and about half the non-CA route guys are doing "well." No real difference.

With the CA-route guys, what I find is those that really wanted to be accountants and like the profession do exceptionally well. Those that became CAs to earn top dollar or to have "prestige" have generally been stuck in lower level positions. I wouldn't suggest anyone do anything because the job pays well or it comes with opportunities, if you don't want to be a professional accountant forever, you probably shouldn't be looking at the CA program. It's an elite profession and you need to be all in, fully invested.

Just know the strengths of the program, what you're getting into and the sacrifices you'll need to make before you undertake ANY program. That's my point. If you love accounting and it's the career for you, you probably won't regret the CA program.