Jeez, it says a lot that Tkachuk amassed more highlights than Gaudreau last season due to his physical play, scrums, offensive dominance on the 3M line, and general SOB attitude.
Oh man, I'm running out of time this summer for the videos. Think I'll do the order as Backlund, Gio, Dougie, Versteeg, Bennett, Brodie, Frolik, OT Wins, Rookies, Comeback Wins, Gaudreau's World Championship highlights.
11 videos... I'll aim for one a week if possible, but even that takes me to Mid-October.
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Jeez, it says a lot that Tkachuk amassed more highlights than Gaudreau last season due to his physical play, scrums, offensive dominance on the 3M line, and general SOB attitude.
Oh man, I'm running out of time this summer for the videos. Think I'll do the order as Backlund, Gio, Dougie, Versteeg, Bennett, Brodie, Frolik, OT Wins, Rookies, Comeback Wins, Gaudreau's World Championship highlights.
11 videos... I'll aim for one a week if possible, but even that takes me to Mid-October.
Thanks for the videos. Any chance of getting a bloopers video? Particularly interested in any rookie moves made by Tkachuck
Can't help but remember New Era's interesting take on him leading up to the draft.
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Originally Posted by New Era
Elite complimentary player? That's a new one. Elite passer? That video doesn't show that at all. He's not even the best passer on his line. Elite at going to the net? That's another new one. Marner looks elite in that video regardless of his line mates. He looks just as good with Jones or Piccinich. Tkachuk looks like a number of wingers who rode shot gun with two top end players. What I don't like is Tkachuk possesses no true elite skill. He doesn't have elite speed, nor puck skills, nor shot. To me you have to have some level of elite skill to go early in the draft. Being a complimentary player doesn't get your drafted top five.
See, that isn't the point. You don't draft a complimentary player in the top of the draft. You get complimentary players in the later parts of the draft. You take players early that have potential to be exceptional in some capacity. That usually means you are drafting a player with a part of their game that is elite. With Tkachuk I see nothing elite. You also have to hope his game translates to the NHL. Will he be able to play the same type of game in the NHL? His father was able to, but his father had an extra two inches and 40 pounds on Matthew. He's a very different player and lacks many of the things that made his father a great player, things like an elite shot and elite physicality. To me, Matthew Tkachuk is a very raw and incomplete player.
He's the third wheel on a line that features two of the best players in junior hockey. It didn't matter who the Knights played with Marner and Dvorak, they produced. Tkachuk getting opportunity to play the majority of his games on that line, especially on the PP, gave him a chance to rack up a lot of points. As point out and supported by the video, it was irrelevant who was out with Marner and Dvorak, they produced and looked good doing it. They made almost every player on their line look like a great complimentary player. Great players do that, and Marner and Dvorak are both top end talents.
Would I like a player like Tkachuk to play on the top line with Gaudreau and Monahan? Yes, I would, but Tkachuk is not the best fit. I think you can find a better fit later in the draft. I would prefer they got a true compliment to that line and found a right shooting RW with elite speed, finishing ability, and NHL size. There are players available that could meet that need and we don't have to waste a top 5 pick to snag a "complimentary" player.
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Originally Posted by New Era
No axe to grind with Tkachuk, I just don't think he's that good. I think people get all hot and bothered over him because he scored a boatload of points playing with the two best players in the OHL. I thought Max Jones showed as much as Tkachuk when he was on the line. But then again, when you have two of the best players in the league on your line, and you play on a league powerhouse, it is pretty easy to look good from time-to-time. I am just not sold that Tkachuk does anything on that line that any number of players would not replicate with fair opportunity.
Irrelevant point. Tkachuk's skills have little to do with his age. We're talking about what should make Tkachuk a top five pick. Will he be a successful NHL player? Maybe the question to ask yourself is this. What do you think is going to happen when Marner and Dvorak shuffle off to Toronto and Arizona next season? Do you think Tkachuk is going to repeat this performance?
See, there's the cold harsh slap of reality. How would Tkachuk do on his own? How is he going to do without two of the best players in the OHL on his line? Well, the 8 goals he scored without Marner's direct involvement seems to be telling. Bottom line is Tkachuk doesn't have anything elite about him. He doesn't have great foot speed. He doesn't have a great shot. He doesn't have great puck skills. He doesn't do anything exceptional. The one thing he does well is get to the front of the net. The junior ranks are littered with players whose best skill was using their larger frame.
Maybe the coach wanted to spread the scoring around and have an effective 2nd line? He tried Tkachuk off that line and he didn't score. Jones was on that line for a short time and scored, but continued to score without Dvorak and Marner. See, there's a telling stat. Jones had almost as many goals as Tkachuk, playing on a 2nd line and without the two best players in the OHL.
I'm just naturally very skeptical of guys that rack up huge numbers playing with two elite players. Just because those other two guys are elite doesn't necessarily make the last guy elite. I try and look at these kids to see who has the skills to be a NHL player, because you need specific skills to be a NHL player. You especially need to be able to skate and think at the NHL level. In Tkachuk I don't see a junior player with any elite skills. Guys like that scare me.
I'm not suggesting that Tkachuk is any where near the Bob Maudie level of leeching off his line mates, but I think his production is grossly inflated which is affecting people's judgement of his skill set. I think they are looking at the player and dreaming of him lining up next to Gaudreau and Monahan and project what they hope he'll be rather than evaluating him on what he is. If you judge him on his skill set he doesn't add up to the level of player his points lead you to believe he is. That is why I am extremely skeptical of Tkachuk and would have him down a draft list to middle of the first round and not discussing him as a top five pick. It seems every few drafts there is some kid that comes along that gets pumped up and drafted early because of his numbers and size advantage, but lacks those elite skills (Dal Colle, Virtanen, Connolly, Glennie, etc.). I don't want to be the team that selects that player. I think Tkachuk is that player in this draft because his point totals exceed the sum of his parts.
Cough cough. Change your tune on him yet New Era or you sticking with your carried by Marner/Dvorak narrative? He is an elite complimentary player. He is an elite passer. He possesses elite hockey sense. He has very, very good puck skills. And he's elite at driving the net. Interesting you couldn't see it at all. Just totally blinded to it because Marner and Dvorak were older and flashier I guess? Still quite puzzling to this day. Guess your scouting skills are severely in question.
I think GranteedEV didn't even have Tkachuk in his top 10 that year either. ROFL.
Love the kid. What a beauty. Everyone who read that draft thread knows how much I thought he'd be a great fit for us heading up to that draft. Soooo glad he's on our team. He's going to terrorize our division for years to come. Perfect playoff type player too. He's my favourite Flame already and I think there's more to come.
Great work AC, you rock!
Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher; 08-01-2017 at 02:50 PM.
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I think GranteedEV didn't even have Tkachuk in his top 10 that year either. ROFL.!
I am more than glad Tkachuk translated his game to the NHL but the players i had ahead of Tkachuk were Matthews, Laine, Keller, Sergachyev, Puljujarvi, and Dubois. Jury is still out on all of them and you should know better than to judge a draft only a year after the fact. If I had anyone else ahead of Tkachuk, it was probably by a hair's margin Chychrun, Rubtsov, Fabbro and maybe Jost and again, due to the positions they play and their potential, jury is still out. i never even said I disliked Tkachuk, just that I felt Bennett needed a true play driver like Keller to complete his line... and he still does. Seriously, this is akin to 2012 where someone might be called out for preferring Scheifele over Calder Winner Landeskog. Premature at best.
Not sure what you were expecting to gain with the callout, but okay.
Thanks for the great video AC.
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Last edited by GranteedEV; 08-02-2017 at 02:21 AM.
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Great seeing those highlights again. Seeing Chucky taking Burns stick to the bench with him, and stretching by the centre line before the start of that LA game.
He is very crafty with his stick down low and behind the net - always making something happen.
Not sure what you were expecting to gain with the callout, but okay.
I think you and New Era posted some pretty ignorant stuff about Tkachuk leading up to the draft. I think its fair to point it out. Here's some of your gems
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV
It's not as strong as you think. You seem to think Matthew Tkachuk is a future superstar and all I see is Benoit Pouliot with a bit more piss n vinegar.
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Originally Posted by GranteedEV
But some players just don't put it together. Tkachuk may have great stats playing with Marner and Dvorak right now but every time I've seen him whether at WJC or when the Knights were on TV all I saw was a role player. You don't win cups stocking up on role players. Agree to disagree, I know I'm not the only one who just sees a role player in Tkachuk.
And for the record you had him at #11 which was laughable considering 90% of the scouts Bob Mackenzie talked to had him top 5. I think stuff like that should be called out. There was some irrational disliking of Tkachuk prior to that draft by a vocal minority. Curious if you two wanted to continue to defend your points or if you feel you were completely wrong. You both argued pretty hard against Tkachuk.
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I was a little curious as to whether the Doughty elbow would be included, and I completely respect that adding it would be endorsing a suspendable offense, but it was a pivotal moment in his season. When he lined Doughty up in the middle of the ice in the follow-up game I became a believer in that he can antagonize (and back up his antics with borderline respectability) and play the game confidently at a minimum 2nd line level and potentially elite level. Last years crop of rookies was exceptional and Tkachuk's offense may not be enough to win scoring titles but in building a successful team he sure has an x-factor to compliment his offense which broadly diversifies the image, culture, and style of the entire team.
Either way, he's a stud. Let's put his time as Flame to good use and win some cups!
Yeah I debated including it. Decided the audio of Rick Ball explaining its the first game since the elbow sufficed as it acknowledges the play without "celebrating" it.
Tough call.
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Great job as always AC. Really looking forward to some of the upcoming videos. For the Hamilton one, I bet that it is going to be a fairly long one as well. Lots of points, and lots of dangerous pucks at the net/passes. I hope you show him breaking up some plays too so that people can start getting off the 'Hamilton sucks defensively' boat.
Tkachuk is going to be such a beauty. He already is, but man some of his moves and chances he generates from in-tight is just phenomenal. I think Monahan is a better shooter from in-tight, but Tkachuk makes plays in-tight that nobody else on the Flames does, including Gaudreau.
One thing that really impressed me this season was how regularly this 'bad skater' beat opposing defencemen on the forecheck, and how much strength this kid has. He is going to be a treat to watch when his man-strength comes in over the next few seasons. It is going to be chaotic in front of opposing goalies.
His IQ and developing size / confidence make him a very interesting option to get a look at RW on the top line.
He may be better served growing a bit more as a staple on the Tripe M line, but you can see why so many have suggested he may be a fit with Gaudreau and Monahan. He has size, the tenacity to dig the puck out from down low and get it on the tape of his linemates, and he also knows how to go to the right spot to get a shot away. All those things lead one to believe he could be deadly on our top line in the future.
I get that he and Johnny are both natural LWers, but if you watch video of Tkachuk in junior (and even these two latest videos AC did) he is very often on the right side of the ice doing damage.
Yeah I debated including it. Decided the audio of Rick Ball explaining its the first game since the elbow sufficed as it acknowledges the play without "celebrating" it.
Tough call.
You made the right choice IMO.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
From Darren Hayne's latest article on Flames from 80 Feet:
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Only three players last year registered a SAT% Close of > 52% while also having a zone start percentage of < 36%.
LW Matthew Tkachuk CGY, 53.62 SAT% Close, 35.02 ZS%
C Mikael Backlund CGY, 53.24 SAT% Close, 35.50 ZS%
C Ryan Kesler ANA, 53.17 SAT% Close, 33.69 ZS%
Add this to the fact that he has a much longer offseason to heal up minor injuries and train. He's also working with Dawn Braid, one of the best skating coaches in the business and who helped John Tavares. Really excited to see what Matthew can do in his sophomore season, I don't see him hitting that 2nd year slump that others have gone through.
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[Video] Tkachuk 16/17 Highlights - Part 2
