Justin Trudeau on cover of RollingStone magazine

[Codes]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Looks like not everyone is pleased with the interview.

'Privileged' Justin Trudeau accused of colonialist attitude over boxing match

I'm surprised this isn't getting discussed more. That part of the article didn't sit well with me when I read it. Very odd to single out Brazeau's Indigenous background like that.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Codes

I'm surprised this isn't getting discussed more. That part of the article didn't sit well with me when I read it. Very odd to single out Brazeau's Indigenous background like that.

The quote again:

"It wasn't random," Trudeau says. "I wanted someone who would be a good foil, and we stumbled upon the scrappy tough-guy senator from an indigenous community. He fit the bill, and it was a very nice counterpoint."

A good foil needs to be someone percieved as strong. So perhaps, when he mentioned Brazeau's background, it was to emphasize toughness? Someone from, say, the arthritic senior citizen community, would've been a less effective foil. If this is the case, it's still a generalization, but perhaps a positive one.

It's also possible that he was merely describing Brazeau. Out of the multiple possible effective foils, and indigenous one was what was available.

Or it's possible that he just really wanted to beat up an indigenous man, but that seems to me the least likely.

Regardless, I suspect we'll get some kind of clarification and/or apology soon, because if you leave the door open to something being interpreted as a gaffe... it surely will be.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This obviously doesn't need it's own thread. Just an attempt to bring out insults from the "He's not ready" crowd. Really should go in the funny/cool video thread.

Nice hair though

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Reality 101

You, of all people, have no right to proclaim what "reality 101" is. And for all the Canadian left loves to disingenuously equate the Canadian right to the American right, the simple reality is, I've seen everything Thor is complaining about now coming from the anti-Harper crowd years before Trump was anything more than the senile old boss of The Apprentice. And yes, before that from anti-Ignatief positions as well.

You and Thor are trying to equate your political enemies to Trump supporters simply to satisfy your own sense of superiority.

[RichKlit]

All of these conversations almost regardless of topic have degenerated into moral high ground arguments and what is being regarded as the moral high ground is becoming very dubious at best.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You, of all people, have no right to proclaim what "reality 101" is. And for all the Canadian left loves to disingenuously equate the Canadian right to the American right, the simple reality is, I've seen everything Thor is complaining about now coming from the anti-Harper crowd years before Trump was anything more than the senile old boss of The Apprentice. And yes, before that from anti-Ignatief positions as well.

This response actually articulates his point perfectly. His post was illustrating how left and right parties have failed their constituents and they get away with it because people will blindly defend or attack one party or the other. Rather than take a moment to consider this, you decided that since I'm a poster who doesn't share your political views I must be wrong for agreeing with him and you begin to argue over something that isn't even being debated.

You and Thor are trying to equate your political enemies to Trump supporters simply to satisfy your own sense of superiority.

My sense of superiority? I'm not the one going around telling people what they do and don't have the right to comment on. I mean seriously I'd love to hear your argument for why my opinion on the world as I see it is worth any less than yours or anyone else's for that matter.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Thor

I wish you guys had the same level of skepticism over Harper, but I guess Canada is quickly becoming as hardline partisan as the US.

Originally Posted by Thor

Guess I'm ignorant for calling out the hyper partisan things I'm seeing from old friends in AB, not the ones based in fact, but the dishonest memes I keep seeing in the US with Trump supporters.

I just am fed up with liberals, conservatives, libertarians, anyone who just gives loyalty to a political party like they do for a sports team, and yes this phenomenon is not new, but unlike 10 years ago, 20 years ago, the level of hyper partisanship is reaching new levels with technology and ideological bubbles on social media.

But then what do I know, I'm a pretty ignorant guy.

Originally Posted by Thor

Are you one of my friends on facebook from AB? Did I say all people from AB, did I say all conservatives, did I see anything like that?

Your first post indicates that you are referring to people in this very thread as the equivalent of Trump supporters. You then backtrack and say, Oh no it's just my FB friends I'm referring to who believe all those ridiculous memes.

[Calgary4LIfe]

It is really funny how I have changed my tune when it comes to Trudeau. I totally HATED him as a candidate. I was convinced he was going to be Canada's version of Sarah Palin and would embarrass Canada routinely or say stupid things (like when he called China's government a model for the world a couple of years ago).

I have stopped voting blindly for any particular party ages ago (I used to be a hard-core conservative - now I shake my head at anyone that votes for any particular party 'just because it is that party'). Each party has to earn my vote now - they have all disappointed me (conservatives especially lately to the point that I hate them).

Has Trudeau been perfect? Absolutely not. However, he has been good overall I think. Everyone will disagree, but I really have been impressed by Trudeau - both how he handles himself in the media, and what he has accomplished thus far. The NAFTA re-negotiations will go a long way in defining his time in office I think, but I actually trust him to deal with that well. I never thought I would trust him. I am actually quite amazed at how I have turned around my opinion of him.

Though most would disagree with me on this statement, but I will say it anyways - I was a hard-line conservative, and I thought that the NDP was the anti-Christ of my political beliefs and felt that they would be the downfall of an economy if elected. I am not sure how I changed, but I feel the complete opposite now. NDP government inherited a tough situation at a tough time economically, but I am shocked at how I started supporting them too.

Partisan politics is completely stupid. Vote for the platform and what the previous government has and hasn't accomplished.

Trudeau has really impressed me, but I will not vote blindly for Trudeau next election. Let's see how he does, and let's see how the other parties modify their platforms to further shape this country. Each one has to do its' best to earn my single meager vote every time now.

[DiracSpike]

Does anyone else not care about Thor's facebook friends?

"I weep"?... gimme a break dude

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is really funny how I have changed my tune when it comes to Trudeau. I totally HATED him as a candidate. I was convinced he was going to be Canada's version of Sarah Palin and would embarrass Canada routinely or say stupid things (like when he called China's government a model for the world a couple of years ago).

I have stopped voting blindly for any particular party ages ago (I used to be a hard-core conservative - now I shake my head at anyone that votes for any particular party 'just because it is that party'). Each party has to earn my vote now - they have all disappointed me (conservatives especially lately to the point that I hate them).

Has Trudeau been perfect? Absolutely not. However, he has been good overall I think. Everyone will disagree, but I really have been impressed by Trudeau - both how he handles himself in the media, and what he has accomplished thus far. The NAFTA re-negotiations will go a long way in defining his time in office I think, but I actually trust him to deal with that well. I never thought I would trust him. I am actually quite amazed at how I have turned around my opinion of him.

Though most would disagree with me on this statement, but I will say it anyways - I was a hard-line conservative, and I thought that the NDP was the anti-Christ of my political beliefs and felt that they would be the downfall of an economy if elected. I am not sure how I changed, but I feel the complete opposite now. NDP government inherited a tough situation at a tough time economically, but I am shocked at how I started supporting them too.

Partisan politics is completely stupid. Vote for the platform and what the previous government has and hasn't accomplished.

Trudeau has really impressed me, but I will not vote blindly for Trudeau next election. Let's see how he does, and let's see how the other parties modify their platforms to further shape this country. Each one has to do its' best to earn my single meager vote every time now.

I'm in the same boat (although you put it way more eloquently than I could have). Always voted Conservative, but in 2015 I did vote Liberal and I'm glad because I've been happy with their performance. Conservatives are still a crap show right now and they have more work to do before they can demonstrate they'd do a better job than Liberals. When the Conservatives start doing a better job, I'll vote for them. Seems pretty basic that's how people should vote.

As for the NDP - I did vote conservative in the provincial election, but I'm glad now the NDP won. They've done a better job than the conservatives would have done IMO.

Now this is anecdotal, but I've noticed the people with partisan leanings either way are generally less thoughtful people.

[Fuzz]

I'd be interested to see what percentage of people have never voted for more than one party, and what party has the most solid base. I'd imagine NDP union members would be a group that only ever votes one way, as would a lot of rural people, particularly in the Prairies. I think I've voted for pretty much every major party at some point, other than Reform/Alliance.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd be interested to see what percentage of people have never voted for more than one party, and what party has the most solid base. I'd imagine NDP union members would be a group that only ever votes one way, as would a lot of rural people, particularly in the Prairies. I think I've voted for pretty much every major party at some point, other than Reform/Alliance.

That actually would be interesting. And maybe scary.

[Codes]

Originally Posted by SebC

The quote again:

"It wasn't random," Trudeau says. "I wanted someone who would be a good foil, and we stumbled upon the scrappy tough-guy senator from an indigenous community. He fit the bill, and it was a very nice counterpoint."

A good foil needs to be someone perceived as strong. So perhaps, when he mentioned Brazeau's background, it was to emphasize toughness? Someone from, say, the arthritic senior citizen community, would've been a less effective foil. If this is the case, it's still a generalization, but perhaps a positive one.

It's also possible that he was merely describing Brazeau. Out of the multiple possible effective foils, and indigenous one was what was available.

Or it's possible that he just really wanted to beat up an indigenous man, but that seems to me the least likely.

Regardless, I suspect we'll get some kind of clarification and/or apology soon, because if you leave the door open to something being interpreted as a gaffe... it surely will be.

Totally agree. I just feel it's best left unsaid in this case simply due to the ambiguity of the statement. Obviously I don't believe there was any malicious intent, but politically, it's something for critics to latch onto.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Codes

Totally agree. I just feel it's best left unsaid in this case simply due to the ambiguity of the statement. Obviously I don't believe there was any malicious intent, but politically, it's something for critics to latch onto.

One thing I neglected to clarify is that Trudeau may have seen Brazeau's indigenous background as relevant to dispelling the notion that privilege would have made him (Trudeau) soft.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I think you are out of touch with what's going on in Canada. The political climate here is nothing like that in the United States.

I think you fail to recognize that you're like that frog in the pot of water being brought to a slow boil. Canadians don't recognize the changing face of politics in their country because the change is happening slowly. Canadians are becoming more like their American neighbors, in almost every way. The culture is adopting an individualistic slant and becoming much more polarized. I spent two weeks in Alberta/BC and it was very noticeable. The politics has slanted right. Not to the extreme of the States, but it's headed that way. Those in the mix rarely see these changes happening, but outsiders recognize the shifts because it is different from the last observation. Thor is right in what he says, Canadians are just too close to the change to see it.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by New Era

I think you fail to recognize that you're like that frog in the pot of water being brought to a slow boil. Canadians don't recognize the changing face of politics in their country because the change is happening slowly. Canadians are becoming more like their American neighbors, in almost every way. The culture is adopting an individualistic slant and becoming much more polarized. I spent two weeks in Alberta/BC and it was very noticeable. The politics has slanted right. Not to the extreme of the States, but it's headed that way. Those in the mix rarely see these changes happening, but outsiders recognize the shifts because it is different from the last observation. Thor is right in what he says, Canadians are just too close to the change to see it.

I can see it in a major way, it's coming and the conservatives are unfortunately (I mean they pretty much have to) going to pander to that change in a major way next election and really stir **** up in our country.

We're an incredibly stupid species relative to brain size, and nowhere is that more evident than in politics.

[Resolute 14]

"The politics has (sic) slanted right" says the guy bragging about travelling to two provinces that abandoned right wing governments for left in a country that abandoned a right wing government for one a little less right wing.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Codes

Totally agree. I just feel it's best left unsaid in this case simply due to the ambiguity of the statement. Obviously I don't believe there was any malicious intent, but politically, it's something for critics to latch onto.

If you read his book he explains that he was looking to find an opponent that would inspire the lackluster Liberal Party and give them something to rally behind.

He approached Rob Anders and Peter McKay but they said no. Brazeau was a good opponent not because of his background but because he's a big guy, was super brash and partisan and had army training but the Prime Minister thought he would be beatable with his longer arm reach and stamina.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

I think you fail to recognize that you're like that frog in the pot of water being brought to a slow boil. Canadians don't recognize the changing face of politics in their country because the change is happening slowly. Canadians are becoming more like their American neighbors, in almost every way. The culture is adopting an individualistic slant and becoming much more polarized. I spent two weeks in Alberta/BC and it was very noticeable. The politics has slanted right. Not to the extreme of the States, but it's headed that way. Those in the mix rarely see these changes happening, but outsiders recognize the shifts because it is different from the last observation. Thor is right in what he says, Canadians are just too close to the change to see it.

neighbours

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

"The politics has (sic) slanted right" says the guy bragging about travelling to two provinces that abandoned right wing governments for left in a country that abandoned a right wing government for one a little less right wing.

Says someone who completely missing the part about the cultural shift and then acknowledgement that with that adoption of individualism has led to a very different perspective in ideology and political identification. A protest vote does not equal a major shift in ideology. Albertans still remain extremely conservative, and shifting further to right, while the observation of BC is they display much more conservative behaviors than they have in the past. Again, this is an observation of change over time. Watch it froggy, there's steam coming off the water you're soaking in.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

neighbours

To Americans, it's neighbors.