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Old 07-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #1
CaptainYooh
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Default Luongo vs. Vancouver Canucks

In light of Tuuka Rask signing a new long-term deal and the general silliness of long-term deals in pro sports, my friend and I had an argument yesterday that had quickly escalated and become very heated. It was about Luongo's situation. Specifically, there was a rumour that Luongo is so upset about Gillis trading Schneider that he's contemplating sitting out until they trade him. Don't know if the rumour has any truth to it, but that's not the point. My friend was arguing that the whole situation is 100% organization's fault, because they've offered Luongo a stupidly sweet deal that Luongo naturally could not refuse and now the contract cannot be traded anywhere putting poor Luongo is in a dead-end trap.

I say BS! Luongo signing was organization's belief in his abilities and commitment to make him a franchise player. His own bad play resulted in him being moved to a back-up position. He can't blame Gillis & Co. for his own erratic play. (For the record, I myself believe that long-term deals are ridiculously stupid by any team for ANY player; this one was no exception.)

My friend further argued that Gillis all but publicly blamed Luongo for the team's missing Stanley Cup; thus, aggravating the situation and making the fans hating Luongo in order to divert the blame from himself for signing a silly long-term deal. So, because of that, they are 100% to blame.

I say, again, BS. Luongo is still under a giant contract and he must honour it 100% by playing as good as he can until the situation resolves itself somehow. He OWES that to the organization regardless of how he feels about staying in Vancouver. Plus, he himself made the situation worse by stating publicly that he wanted to be traded. I believe that players bringing public opinion and media into their own private contract negotiations have their own selfish agenda and they deserve the poor outcome if it doesn't go their way. Firstly, they make trading more difficult by weakening GM's bargaining position with other teams. Secondly, they try influencing their contractual arrangements by the factors outside of their team's control.

In summary, our argument came to completely opposite stands. My friend believes that the situation is 100% the Canucks organization's fault because of the bad contract and bad PR; while I believe that is 100% Luongo's fault, because of how badly he performed and how badly he handled that thereafter. I think that on a personal level, Luongo is the maker of his own destiny now. If he starts playing well at the level of his pay, he will be able to affect his future tradeability positively. On a professional level, he MUST do that same thing, because he is under contract.

Where do you stand on this argument?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:23 AM   #3
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Canucks offered him the contract, Luongo signed it. Can't be 100% fault on either side.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:25 AM   #4
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I'd lean a lot more to your friends side than yours.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #5
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It's Gillis' fault that Lu is upset and he handled it badly. It's Lu's fault for signing a contact he should have known he couldn't live up to and may leave him stuck somewhere he doesn't want to. You guys are arguing two different things


Edit: what in saying is you don't have the same definition of the "situation".
If the "situation" is simply the impasse, they're both to blame as Lu should've known the contact made him unmovable and Gillis should've known that he couldn't assume a better deal would have come up, so he shouldn't have made the player upset.

Last edited by Street Pharmacist; 07-11-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:29 AM   #6
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I think that it is mostly Gillis' fault. Maybe 70-80%, the major issue is that Gillis failed to trade Luongo when the problem first arose. Yes it is a ridiculous contract, but you have to remember that there was a time when Gillis could have gotten a decent return for Lou even with that contract.

Gillis kept holding out for more value, but as time wore on and Luongos performance declined Gillis found himself stuck with Luongo. I believe that Gillis vastly overestimated his value and handcuffed himself and the organization into the situation they are in now.

Luongo is still a good starting goalie in the NHL, his performance the last three season has not been as bad as some people tend to think. However, Gillis should have pulled the trigger earlier on the Luongo deal and he would have Schneider at a more affordable contract now.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:35 AM   #7
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Luongo, Torts, Sedins blocking shots and Gillis! This is going to be awesome watching the drama unfold!
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamesdyehard View Post
I... but you have to remember that there was a time when Gillis could have gotten a decent return for Lou even with that contract.

Gillis kept holding out for more value,....
This is a valid point but only IF it was true, which I doubt it was, really. All we know is what Gillis was saying to the effect that "there was strong interest", but we don't know anything about that. All GMs lie about these things to the media. I suspect there might have been some interest but only with significant sacrifices to Canucks financially.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainYooh View Post
I say BS! Luongo signing was organization's belief in his abilities and commitment to make him a franchise player. His own bad play resulted in him being moved to a back-up position.
His own bad play?

You mean the bad play that had him posting a .919 Sv % and 2.41 GAA in his last season as starter? Or the bad play in which he had two shut-outs in the SCF while the Canucks skaters set a record for futility in scoring over a 7 game series? Or is it the bad play that has seen him consistently win twice as many games as he losses since coming to Vancouver?

The revisionist history trying to make it seem like Luongo is a bad goalie is laughable.

It isn't 100% the Canucks/Gillis' fault but it is a large majority their fault.
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
...

The revisionist history trying to make it seem like Luongo is a bad goalie is laughable...
I never said that Luongo was a bad goalie but he is inconsistent, when it really matters. Is M-A Fleury a bad goalie?
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Old 07-11-2013, 11:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Is M-A Fleury a bad goalie?
haha!
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I never said that Luongo was a bad goalie but he is inconsistent, when it really matters. Is M-A Fleury a bad goalie?
Fleury hasn't had close to the success/numbers that Luongo has had and if the Canucks could have scored an average amount of goals Luongo is the starting goalie on a Gold medal winning team and Stanley Cup team so his so called inconsistent play is very overrated. Not his fault the Canucks played pathetic in front of him when it really mattered.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Is M-A Fleury a bad goalie?
Today, yeah he's bad and his numbers have declined steadily from the Pens run to the Cup in 2009.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:06 PM   #14
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Lol at people thinking that Luongo is purposely going to play badly.

If Luongo really wants out, his best bet right now is a trade. If he wants to increase his trade value and get closer to Florida, which is what his wife wants, he has to show that he's one of the best goaltenders in the world.

Also, Luongo still has to deal with his teamates in the locker room. While they are going to be understanding about issues with management, contracts, financials, and wanting to please his wife, they are not going to tolerate him blowing games on purpose.

If Luongo sucks next year, it'll be because they've reduced the laughable size of his pads, not becasue he is purposely choking.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:15 PM   #15
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I blame Gillis and the Canucks 100%.

The contract is what it is, it's not a great deal but quite frankly the problems started when Gillis started opening his yap.

Luongo has been mistreated in this situation and after publicly trying to trade him they turned tail and moved Schneider because he had more trade value. Now they have a disgruntled player on their hands who is unhappy becaue of how he was treated.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:22 PM   #16
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I think it's Luongo's fault more then anything. He obviously had $$$ signs in his eyes as he signed that contract. He knew damn well that his cap-circumventing 12 year contract, signed at age 31, would be an albatross. No way in hell he's that stupid that he thinks otherwise.

Yes, Gillis is at fault too for offering that much. But every man has a price. Luongo signed knowing his family name would be rich for generations. Then, Luongo wants out. But only to certain teams. Right then and there he handcuffed the GM. Especially when it became publicly known that he shot down the Toronto deal and wanted to go back to Florida.

To put it bluntly, both sides are idiots for letting it get to this stage. But both sides knew damn well going into this contract that a lot can happen in 12 years. Both sides made that bed, now lie it in. I don't care that it's the Canucks. It was a dumb contract in the first place that was put in place by Luongo's greed, and Gillis' desire to have a goalie long-term at a cap friendly hit.

I always knew every since the lockout in '05 that all these stupid decade long contracts would bite that team in the ass a couple years down the road. I for one enjoy watching teams stuggle with these contracts, as we are now seeing the fruits of those seeds that got planted so long ago.

My 1 and only wish is that in the newest CBA, that they never allowed for amnesty buyouts. I hate how teams can simply wipe the slate clean with certain players. I want to see heads roll. I want to see greedy players who negotiated such longterm stupid deals, get crapped upon by fans and media alike. I want to see GMs hang their heads in shame over the ''mistake'' they made. I want to see people accountable for their actions.

The only person who won in the Luongo fiasco is Cory Schneider and the NJD. It just amuses me to no end that Lou Lamourello came out of nowhere...and snagged a top goalie for such a low price. He was able to find a way to pass the torch on in NJ, and Schneider will thrive on that. NDJ will continue to be an elite franchise as long as Lou is at the helm, and he just continued on with that tradition by stealing Schneider. That makes this whole situation even more hilarious.

Last edited by Huntingwhale; 07-11-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #17
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I'd have to say Luongo wins because of his funny tweets.

Also i would like to remind everyone they made him THE CAPTAIN of the team to appease him! hahahhahaha the goalie the captain of your team.... what a joke of a franchise.
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:41 PM   #18
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Luongo signed a contract, not his fault at all. It is crazy to suggest he should not have signed the contract. I am sure he is being a professional and plays as best as he can. The team is 100% to blame for how they publicized the matter and for the situation they are in.

Players simply don't decide they will be better, otherwise I would be in the NHL and be the UFC welterweight champ this year. Of course everyone can try training a little harder, but I don't think that has any bearing in this argument.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:27 PM   #19
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Definitely have to hang this one on Gillis.

- Gillis structured the 12 year back-diving contract and offered it to a 31 year old. He had to have know that at some point that contract was going to be tough to move.
- Gillis knew he had Schneider in the organization when he offered Luongo that contract.
- Gillis made it clear fairly early in the Luongo contract that Schneider was the future of the franchise, hamstringing his ability to move Luongo. You cant expect to get good value when you call Schneider the 'future of the franchise' while your previous 'future of the franchise' still has a decade left on his deal.
- Gillis waited to get better value when none seemed forthcoming and the whole thing broke down.

All Luongo did was tell them where to park his truckloads of money. Even his play hasnt been terrible, if anything its been consistent.

Theres more, but to me that was pure inept management that was spending more time trying to look like they knew what they were doing than actually doing anything positive.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:54 PM   #20
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Both sides agreed to the contract - trying to blame one side or the other for it is silly.

Having said that, situations change. People and organizations need to be cognizant of that and react accordingly.

IMO, Luongo has been nothing but professional over the past two years while this has played out.

Conversely, Gillis and the Canucks organization have strung him along, attempted to make him the bad guy, been greedy and short-sighted, and generally have fata'ed the whole situation.

The contract is what it is, but the current situation is 100% the fault of the organization. I hope he sticks it to them.
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