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Old 03-19-2017, 04:17 PM   #101
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True, but if Tkachuk isn't on that line, someone else is and they probably get 40 points.

Also, Ferland has been on a 40 point pace since joining the top line.

If you look at the Flames having 11 players with at least 10 goals, and look at the total points from the D, they have a very deep and balanced attack.

Now if we can get Bennett and Brouwer going...
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:24 PM   #102
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The top two lines producing (which in the history of the Flames has been a rarity) has allowed the team to go from a bubble team to a legitimate playoff team.

If our third line forwards would play up to their potential 5 on 5 then we'd have elite team depth, unquestionably. It's really too bad. There's two guys that can put up 40 and young Bennett who scored 18 last season. Need them to kick those monkeys to the curb in time for playoffs. If they do then I really like our chances of seeing more than a round. If not, then it'll be tough.

Contenders have weapons 3 lines deep. I hope those guys understand how instrumental they can be to the team's success if they can turn it on.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:35 PM   #103
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I think it's important with Brouwer to keep some perspective.

I'm all aboard finding a solution for this season, but I'm not as quick to write the guy off long term.

If he goes in expansion that's what happens, but you have to look to that injury to see what's going on in my mind.

On Dec 23rd he had a .475 points per game which would translate to 39 points in a season, right on his career average.

Since then he's put up 4 points for a .15 points per game.

I think the guys mitt is still hurting, and with that he's hurting his line. Get him into a simplified role until he's either healed or it's next season.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:28 PM   #104
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I agree bingo, I don't feel he is hurting the team and is reasonable in his own end it is just the points are not coming. I'm reserving judgement.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:03 PM   #105
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I think he's slowly been getting better. Was a lot more engaged last night than in previous games.

Could be injury, could be no consistency in getting settled in. Probably something going on we don't know about.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:20 PM   #106
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I agree bingo, I don't feel he is hurting the team and is reasonable in his own end it is just the points are not coming. I'm reserving judgement.
He is unquestionably the worst statistical player on the team this season and that isn't accounting for salary. From an advanced stats perspective he literally makes everyone he has played with worse this year.

Sorry if it's harsh. But he's essentially performing at a replacement level for a fourth line enforcer. Assuming that Ferland is legit then he had made Brouwer completely replaceable.

Really need to hope Brouwer has a good playoff so we can unload him to another team in the offseason and spend that money better.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:34 PM   #107
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He is unquestionably the worst statistical player on the team this season and that isn't accounting for salary. From an advanced stats perspective he literally makes everyone he has played with worse this year.

Sorry if it's harsh. But he's essentially performing at a replacement level for a fourth line enforcer. Assuming that Ferland is legit then he had made Brouwer completely replaceable.

Really need to hope Brouwer has a good playoff so we can unload him to another team in the offseason and spend that money better.
Agreed not including the hyperbole, but he was a weak possession player when they signed him, that hasn't changed.

Now he's fighting the puck and not putting up points.

I'll assume he's still good in the room.

I think his hand injury has hurt his production big time.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:46 PM   #108
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Agreed not including the hyperbole, but he was a weak possession player when they signed him, that hasn't changed.

Now he's fighting the puck and not putting up points.

I'll assume he's still good in the room.

I think his hand injury has hurt his production big time.
At this point we can only hope that this is because of the injury.

If it's not the injury then how good in the room can you be if you're​ the worst statistical player on the team making the seventh highest salary and more money than all three forwards on the best line in the league?

I know that unsung heroes (Dave Lowry) were great in the room without having much production but just saying... The dynamics aren't looking great on that front either.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:50 PM   #109
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4 points since Christmas ... wow. How is it that he is still on the PP?

The fact he is on the PP perplexes me as much as when Wideman was getting 18 to 20 minutes a game earlier in the year.

I'd keep Brouwer in the lineup though. He brings other things, especially on the PK.
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:52 PM   #110
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Here is the thing about Brouwer though:

If the Flames don't sign Brouwer, they are looking at promoting a roster player from the minors, so that means probably Hathaway is a full-time roster player and Shinkaruk is liely the first callup. That's not a great situation for the team. The Flames absolutely needed a guy who was a legitimate NHL top 9 player who could hopefully develop some chemistry in the top 6.

The lack of organizational depth was a huge reason why he was signed.

Ok, so you say to yourself:" The Flames were going to have to sign someone to play for them."

From that perspective things get a lot more favourable.

Other signings in free agency for comparable players include:

Lucic - 6x7
Nielsen: 5x6
Eriksson: 6x6
Ladd: 7x5
Weise: 4 x 2.35
Helm: 5x3.8
Boedker 4x4
Backes:5x6
Martin: 4x2.5
Okposo: 6x7

None of those contracts, in my opinion, are better than Brouwer at 4.5 for 4.

Lesson: Free Agency sucks and if you're going to go that route you're going to be in trouble.

Hopefully the Flames can move Brouwer in the offseason, but right now, he's a significant part of why this Flames team is in a playoff position.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:44 PM   #111
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Brouwer no doubt will have intangibles and has provided intangibles that will be invaluable for the youth of this team down the stretch and into the playoffs here. The Lazar acquisition and players like Hathaway and Janko pushing though make moving Brouwer hopefully via expansion almost a necessity in the off-season.

Will be interesting to see it play out.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:29 PM   #112
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Here is the thing about Brouwer though:

If the Flames don't sign Brouwer, they are looking at promoting a roster player from the minors, so that means probably Hathaway is a full-time roster player and Shinkaruk is liely the first callup. That's not a great situation for the team. The Flames absolutely needed a guy who was a legitimate NHL top 9 player who could hopefully develop some chemistry in the top 6.

The lack of organizational depth was a huge reason why he was signed.

Ok, so you say to yourself:" The Flames were going to have to sign someone to play for them."

From that perspective things get a lot more favourable.

Other signings in free agency for comparable players include:

Lucic - 6x7
Nielsen: 5x6
Eriksson: 6x6
Ladd: 7x5
Weise: 4 x 2.35
Helm: 5x3.8
Boedker 4x4
Backes:5x6
Martin: 4x2.5
Okposo: 6x7

None of those contracts, in my opinion, are better than Brouwer at 4.5 for 4.

Lesson: Free Agency sucks and if you're going to go that route you're going to be in trouble.

Hopefully the Flames can move Brouwer in the offseason, but right now, he's a significant part of why this Flames team is in a playoff position.
I could see Treliving trying to trade Brouwer's problem contract for another problem contract. Be no worse off, and maybe a chance to get a guy going with a change of scenery and hope for some chemistry with Bennett.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:24 PM   #113
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I get that people don't like Brouwers contract in comparison to his contributions, but why have this conversation now, way after the trade deadline and way before the season ends? This is the time of the season where nothing can be done anyway. Brouwer is not going anywhere right now, and no one is going to replace him right now.

Theoretically yes you could bench him, but being overpaid is not a reason to bench someone. You bench someone if you think it makes them play better in the future, or if you have a better option.

If the coaches thought they had a better guy, that guy would be in the lineup. If they thought benching Brouwer would motivate him, it would have been done already.
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:37 PM   #114
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I get that people don't like Brouwers contract in comparison to his contributions, but why have this conversation now, way after the trade deadline and way before the season ends? This is the time of the season where nothing can be done anyway. Brouwer is not going anywhere right now, and no one is going to replace him right now.

Theoretically yes you could bench him, but being overpaid is not a reason to bench someone. You bench someone if you think it makes them play better in the future, or if you have a better option.

If the coaches thought they had a better guy, that guy would be in the lineup. If they thought benching Brouwer would motivate him, it would have been done already.
Considering that Brouwer has been the worst forward for the past 5 games and has been dragging down everyone he's been playing with lately, I wouldn't be opposed to doing that.

It might do him some good to sit a game or two at the very end of the regular season to heal up, reset and come back with a fire under his ass.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:07 PM   #115
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Warrener went off on Brouwer's play this morning, http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-m...040517-hour-1/ (about 17 min in).

It's unbelievably frustrating to see a guy who was brought in for games like these to be so passive and on the sideline. You see guys like Ferland, Engelland,and even Stajan all trying to provide a physical response and Brouwer is nowhere to be seen.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:15 PM   #116
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He is the most useless player we have on the team. So disappointed in his play or lack there of last night. His interest level is at about a 3 out of 10. Let him go to Las Vegas
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:17 PM   #117
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The only excuse at this point is if Brouwer has an injury that he has been nursing.

Last night was exactly the type of game that Brouwer should have been more visible in, but he wasn't.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:20 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
Here is the thing about Brouwer though:

If the Flames don't sign Brouwer, they are looking at promoting a roster player from the minors, so that means probably Hathaway is a full-time roster player and Shinkaruk is liely the first callup. That's not a great situation for the team. The Flames absolutely needed a guy who was a legitimate NHL top 9 player who could hopefully develop some chemistry in the top 6.

The lack of organizational depth was a huge reason why he was signed.

Ok, so you say to yourself:" The Flames were going to have to sign someone to play for them."

From that perspective things get a lot more favourable.

Other signings in free agency for comparable players include:

Lucic - 6x7
Nielsen: 5x6
Eriksson: 6x6
Ladd: 7x5
Weise: 4 x 2.35
Helm: 5x3.8
Boedker 4x4
Backes:5x6
Martin: 4x2.5
Okposo: 6x7

None of those contracts, in my opinion, are better than Brouwer at 4.5 for 4.

Lesson: Free Agency sucks and if you're going to go that route you're going to be in trouble.

Hopefully the Flames can move Brouwer in the offseason, but right now, he's a significant part of why this Flames team is in a playoff position.
What would you say about the Frolik contract? Looks like a very fair deal for a young layer that scored over 40pts and plus a solid 2 way game. I would say a lot of the big money long term deals in free agency end poorly but there are some that pay off
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:21 PM   #119
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Considering that Brouwer has been the worst forward for the past 5 games and has been dragging down everyone he's been playing with lately, I wouldn't be opposed to doing that.

It might do him some good to sit a game or two at the very end of the regular season to heal up, reset and come back with a fire under his ass.
He did get demoted to the 4th line and it appears that hasn't lit a fire under him if last few games are any indication.
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:26 PM   #120
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Double post

I will take the opportunity to also voice my displeasure with the poor play Brouwer has had as a flame

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