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Old 03-18-2017, 04:20 PM   #41
DazzlinDino
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Funny thing is every time cp has an assessment of a player like Brouwer and the coach makes the changes we usually see the positive results right away. Not sure why the coaches take so long to deal with some of the obvious inconsistent players, or situations that are not working. Maybe Brouwer is tired and needs a break resulting in some improved performance when he gets back in. At the very least a small break might give him some food for thought.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:20 PM   #42
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He was better in the first half of the season.

Does very little out there these days. You'd think he'd be able to help Bennett but hardly does anything to help elevate the kid or at the very least make space for him.

You look at that third line on paper and you'd think they'd be able to at least skate with if not outplay most opposition third lines out there. But it's usually the opposite. And the sad thing is 20 year old Bennett does more notable things out there each game than this grizzled vet making 4.5 mil. Probably because Sam's compete is there, even if he's not getting puck luck.

He's not even playing in the top six, that's what makes it more disappointing imo. Should be able to thrive against depth competition...
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:22 PM   #43
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Nobody's saying he had no jam. Just that jam is not worth 4.5 per.

He's barely replacement level based on his possession stats and he kills his linemates possession.

If you're going to talk intangibles and whatever then he better be able to turn water into wine because he's doing little on the ice, especially for the money.

Problem is that this is not surprising but entirely consistent with what you would expect based on his career to date. This year is just another data point on the downward trend in his career.

Another three to go.

Bottom line is you just can't spend bad money like this. See the problems we're in because of Wideman. Brouwer's contact is in the same bucket.
Based on what? His point totals to date:

09/10: 40
10/11: 36
11/12: 33
12/13: 33
13/14: 43
14/15: 43
15/16: 39

AVG: 38.1

I am missing this inexorable downward spiral that you are claiming to see.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:24 PM   #44
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And the sad thing is 20 year old Bennett does more notable things out there each game than this grizzled vet making 4.5 mil. Probably because Sam's compete is there, even if he's not getting puck luck.
Also the fact that Sam has way more raw talent. He's the highest pick in Flames franchise history.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:32 PM   #45
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Who will be the whipping boy once him and Wideman are gone??
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:32 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Based on what? His point totals to date:

09/10: 40
10/11: 36
11/12: 33
12/13: 33
13/14: 43
14/15: 43
15/16: 39

AVG: 38.1

I am missing this inexorable downward spiral that you are claiming to see.
Well said, but I think you missed him.

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Old 03-18-2017, 04:38 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Based on what? His point totals to date:

09/10: 40
10/11: 36
11/12: 33
12/13: 33
13/14: 43
14/15: 43
15/16: 39

AVG: 38.1

I am missing this inexorable downward spiral that you are claiming to see.
Brouwer's possession numbers have been getting worse, and in fact, I believe he's only had one season over 50% in the last six seasons. The big problem is that he's a black hole on any line he plays with. In St Louis he sunk his linemates possession as well as with Washington's top forwards.

He was a big possession anchor for Backstrom and Ovechkin. If he can't cut the mustard playing with two of the best forwards in the game then a legitimate question to ask is how much of Sam Bennett's production problems this season are actually Troy Brouwer's?

And it's not as Bingo says that this is a recent development in the last six weeks. He's been having problems getting out of his own zone going on at least three seasons now.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:41 PM   #48
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Nobody's saying he had no jam. Just that jam is not worth 4.5 per.
Ill own that one. He did have a good game last night and laid out several people. He hasnt played like that consistently and hasnt brought much (visibly) to the table, although as others mentioned, Im sure is a great dressing room guy.

He has not been terrible, but I was certainly hoping for a bit more, even with knowing that it was not a great contract right from the start. Was never expecting him to play up to the value of his contract, but hoped for more than the current production.

Regardless, the team is on fire and I really dont care much how the individual players are doing under these circumstances. He might also be playing a different role if the team was struggling and he felt he needed to step up. Others have mentioned defensive roles. Whatever it is, I'm a happy flames fan
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:43 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Enoch Root View Post
Based on what? His point totals to date:

09/10: 40
10/11: 36
11/12: 33
12/13: 33
13/14: 43
14/15: 43
15/16: 39

AVG: 38.1

I am missing this inexorable downward spiral that you are claiming to see.
Not so much a downward spiral - he's proven to be consistent over the years with Chicago/Washington/St.Louis - it's that for wte reason this year his pace is 27.3 points over an 82 game schedule... that's a significant drop for a guy we are paying 4+ mill per year.

Not trying to make something more out of this because I do think there have been good elements to Brouwers game but there is no question that he's been a disappointment this year.. hopefully he can find a spark.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:59 PM   #50
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Not so much a downward spiral - he's proven to be consistent over the years with Chicago/Washington/St.Louis - it's that for wte reason this year his pace is 27.3 points over an 82 game schedule... that's a significant drop for a guy we are paying 4+ mill per year.

Not trying to make something more out of this because I do think there have been good elements to Brouwers game but there is no question that he's been a disappointment this year.. hopefully he can find a spark.
That's twice you have quoted me though I wasn't referring to you either time. I agree with your comments in this thread.

It is the more extreme comments I have been referring to.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:00 PM   #51
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Brouwer is useful enough as a 4th liner. At 1.5-2M per I would be happy enough with him on the roster.
Based on everything in his history, his play to date is more or less exactly what we should expect from him. He is what you get for 4.5M per in free agency. Did everyone disappointed now (who were pleased in July) really expect him to be something different/better than he ever has been?
It was a bad signing since day 1, not just now.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:04 PM   #52
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That's twice you have quoted me though I wasn't referring to you either time. I agree with your comments in this thread.

It is the more extreme comments I have been referring to.
Was quoting because there's some good discussion to be had via your posts, I'm generally agreeing with yours as well though I can see where it would appear that I'm countering your viewpoint with how I quoted.

I think Brouwer has the ability to find an extra gear here, especially this time of year, just think he needs a kick in the arse to do it.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:04 PM   #53
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Frolik had a tough first season in Calgary, too, and many here were on him for not being the 20 goal scorer he was in Winnipeg. But the big difference between him and Brouwer this year is that Frolik still showed up in every other aspect of the game he's good at and is now 1/3rd of one of the best lines in the NHL. I'm not sure why Brouwer is not consistently playing the brand of hockey he's known for, but if it doesn't happen in the next few months I'm sure that Las Vegas would take a chance on him in hopes that he still has something left to give. At the very least he helps them reach the cap floor while still being a warm body on the ice.

I've been stunned like many here by his drop-off. Every time the Flames played him he was a thorn in their side, unfortunately he still is...
Frolik had a tough first season here and people were on him? According to who? Frolik has been one of the most popular Flames the minute he played his first shift here.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:07 PM   #54
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Frolik had a tough first season here and people were on him? According to who? Frolik has been one of the most popular Flames the minute he played his first shift here.
I also seem to remember people ragging on Frolik, but maybe that was just Ricardo in which case nevermind.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:08 PM   #55
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Hahahaha.. where is that guy?
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:09 PM   #56
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I also seem to remember people ragging on Frolik, but maybe that was just Ricardo in which case nevermind.
When ricardodw starts whining about a player he dislikes it just feels like dozens of people are complaining.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:11 PM   #57
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When ricardodw starts whining about a player he dislikes it just feels like dozens of people are complaining.
It's because it takes so much more effort to decipher what it is he's trying to say. And then there's the rage. The all-consuming rage...
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:14 PM   #58
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Who will be the whipping boy once him and Wideman are gone??
Gio.

The only thing Troy Brouwer has done wrong is he had his 30th birthday. I don't get CPs hate on for veteran players.

Ya, he is cold right now. Every other player on this team had gone on a long cold stretch except maybe Backlund. And Backlund once had a cold stretch that lasted about five years.
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:21 PM   #59
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Hopefully he can pot another game-7 GwG:

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Old 03-18-2017, 05:24 PM   #60
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Gio.

The only thing Troy Brouwer has done wrong is he had his 30th birthday. I don't get CPs hate on for veteran players.

Ya, he is cold right now. Every other player on this team had gone on a long cold stretch except maybe Backlund. And Backlund once had a cold stretch that lasted about five years.
Salary cap, friend.
4.5M is the problem, not specifically the player.
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