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Old 03-17-2017, 02:57 PM   #21
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So if we go by your model of online-only schooling, as a student I would never:

-Learn the value of a schedule; I can start my class at 7:55am or 8:30am and there is no difference to me as I would learn the same stuff. So when it comes to meeting people, sure, we can agree to meet at 8, but me showing up at 8:30 is not an issue.
-Understand the value of discipline and courtesy; I can sit at home and watch my lecture while texting away and playing cat videos loudly.
-Have the opportunity to meet their college sweetheart
-Be bothered to walk down the hall to the undergrad office and ask for advice; I would just post my question online and accept random answers and criticism from people, whether the answers are right or wrong.
-See a random poster for volunteering at the mustard seed and decide that I should join and meet people
-Walk by a crowd and peak in to see what is going on
-Meet people in my classroom setting and go out for beers together
-Understand the value of whispering to the guy next to you asking what the foreign heavy-accent prof just said.
-Be forced to take notes; hearing something vs writing something down in repetition are completely different learning styles

The list goes on and on...
Is this satire, or is the poster like 60 years old? It's delightfully quaint either way.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:00 PM   #22
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It's funny that the value the defenders of university's current model has nothing to do with learning material.

So the better question might be what could replace university that would allow people to develop self reliance and have a life experience that doesn't require large amounts of debt.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:08 PM   #23
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So we're saving $40k for each of our kids for education - they'll have to pay the rest on their own. It's frustrating to know that money will go towards an incredibly antiquated system that is far, far more expensive than it needs to be, and will serve our kids poorly.
Depending on what they want to do, there are lots of alternative education universities in the States and a few in Canada. I went to one for the exact reasons you mentioned and it was great. Its been totally useless in my real life but I'm super glad I went there and learned the way I did. My subsequent degrees were a total joke and couldn't hold a candle to the quality of the undergrad I did. Anyway, I wouldn't be so resigned to a substandard education though.

Old man yelling at clouds time...I think university grads are pretty dull these days. They've been told what to do for so long it's tough to get an original thought out of one of them. Everybody is so mad too. Berkeley students have always been a little nuts but now everybody wants to burn stuff down. I went to Mt Royal for old man yelling at clouds therapy last week and passed through a Trump protest, a generic social justice protest, a non denominational prayer group, a safe room full of people being safe, and two huge jugs of condoms. It's like a mine field out there for old men yelling at clouds.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:10 PM   #24
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It's straight up PCU now
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:12 PM   #25
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You're all wrong, the way of the future are the 'Learning Beds' in the Venture Bros. It even prints out a diploma.

Its a bed. And a printer. That is 'next level' stuff.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:13 PM   #26
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I went to Mt Royal for old man yelling at clouds therapy last week and passed through a Trump protest, a generic social justice protest, a non denominational prayer group, a safe room full of people being safe, and two huge jugs of condoms. It's like a mine field out there for old men yelling at clouds.
Don't worry, it's Muslim Awareness Week at MRU this week.

Just another cloud for you to yell at.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:21 PM   #27
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Don't worry, it's Muslim Awareness Week at MRU this week.

Just another cloud for you to yell at.
Oh I intend to. When I was in university there were no such thing as Muslims and we got along just fine.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:22 PM   #28
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Too many posts to quote so a general response.

Not every method of education that isn't the current status quo for University has to be independent online learning. But you could make an argument that given the current technology in a lot of workforces, there would be quite a bit of overlap in terms of learning to communicate effectively via email, skype etc.

Not learning group work, independent living, networking. Again, not every alternate education method relies solely on independent online study. And if it were online school, then there are benefits to learning how to do these things in an increasingly digital age.

I don't think University is doing a very good job at teaching most kids many of the things that traditional education proponents are mentioning in this thread as the very reasons they support traditional learning environments.

And as GGG said, it is funny that not a single person, that I've seen, has even pointed to the education itself as a defense of current university education methods. They are are peripheral benefits, many of which would still be present if the teaching methods changed and many of which are somewhat antiquated given our increasingly digital world.

The university that a person attends and their networking probably is linked far more to their social status than their learning ability, so even those arguments don't hold a lot of weight in my view.

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Old 03-17-2017, 03:26 PM   #29
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Don't worry, it's Muslim Awareness Week at MRU this week.

Just another cloud for you to yell at.
Do they have to wear arm-bands....you know, so that you're 'more aware' of them?

Because I can see some potential issues with that.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:29 PM   #30
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Do they have to wear arm-bands....you know, so that you're 'more aware' of them?

Because I can see some potential issues with that.
I feel like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of "Muslim Awareness Week".
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:32 PM   #31
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I feel like you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of "Muslim Awareness Week".
If you work for Homeland Security or the TSA then every week is 'Muslim Awareness Week.'
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #32
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I've got a nephew who just finished his medical residency. He barely went to lectures when in medical school . Profs posted their lecture notes online. He just studied off of those and the textbooks. Granted, there is a lot more to med school than lectures, but for the first year or two, he barely went to class and graduated near the top of his class. This was no Jamaican med school either. This was a highly respected Canadian school.

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Old 03-17-2017, 04:22 PM   #33
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I think a large portion of the value that comes from a university degree is from the work required to get one. As others have mentioned, you have to develop a bunch of soft skills (teamwork, time management, writing, etc.) in order to make it through a 4 year program. The knowledge learned in the program is important too, but there is great value from the development of all those soft skills.

I think there is similar feelings towards post-university designations. My boss once told me that my designation is powerful in the workforce not only for the knowledge I acquired in it, but the hard work and soft skills that you must have in order to achieve it.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #34
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The problem with a BA is that it has become the equivalent of grade 12 in the workplace, effectively by over promoting degrees we've found a way to charge for the last year or two of high school.

Twenty years ago most jobs asked for Grade 10, if you could read, write and do basic math that was all you needed. Grade 12 got you a job in a bank or an office or as a cop that now require a degree, a degree got you the sort of starting pay and responsibility that now require a masters.
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:09 PM   #35
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Besides your formal education, there is great value in leaving home as a young person for university - learning to cook, do laundry, budgeting, friendships, romances, experimentation. Growing up. I suppose you can get those experiences outside of a college experience, but these intangible things were very important in my growth.
For sure. All of that and it was so much fun. It was a great time and totally worth the money just for the good times alone.

I know in those days I wouldn't have been dreading all the noise, fighting, and puking of St. Patrick's Day, but I am now. Old Man!
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Old 03-17-2017, 05:14 PM   #36
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I've got a nephew who just finished his medical residency. He barely went to lectures when in medical school . Profs posted their lecture notes online. He just studied off of those and the textbooks. Granted, there is a lot more to med school than lectures, but for the first year or two, he barely went to class and graduated near the top of his class. This was no Jamaican med school either. This was a highly respected Canadian school.
That may say more about the intelligence of your nephew than the overall educational experience.
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Old 03-17-2017, 06:55 PM   #37
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That may say more about the intelligence of your nephew than the overall educational experience.
Definitely, but was trying to make the point that 25 years ago the option to do something like that wasn't there. When I was in school, I never would have missed lectures, they were valuable to me. Today, with information available at my fingertips whenever I want, my university experience would definitely be different.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:42 PM   #38
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I think there is similar feelings towards post-university designations. My boss once told me that my designation is powerful in the workforce not only for the knowledge I acquired in it, but the hard work and soft skills that you must have in order to achieve it.
That's why an MBA means absolutely nothing. Pay your money and you get your degree. It's impossible to fail your MBA, no matter how dumb and lazy you are.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:59 PM   #39
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I can't imagine doing a professional degree nowadays and ending up with a huge debt ($50k to $100k) when you graduate. The thought of it seems absolutely soul crushing.
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Old 03-17-2017, 11:46 PM   #40
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So the better question might be what could replace university that would allow people to develop self reliance and have a life experience that doesn't require large amounts of debt.
The CliffFletcher Self Reliance and Global Awareness Life Experience Program: At 19 years old, every Canadian is given a plane ticket to a random country, with a return flight in 3 months, and $3,000 CDN. I guarantee they'll learn more about themselves in those months than in 3 years of university.

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Not every method of education that isn't the current status quo for University has to be independent online learning. But you could make an argument that given the current technology in a lot of workforces, there would be quite a bit of overlap in terms of learning to communicate effectively via email, skype etc.
It is odd how little the digital revolution has affected post-secondary education. Does anyone think that if we invented post-secondary education today, with today's technology and with no vested interests or preconceptions, that we would came up with a system that would look anything like what we have now?

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I think a large portion of the value that comes from a university degree is from the work required to get one. As others have mentioned, you have to develop a bunch of soft skills (teamwork, time management, writing, etc.) in order to make it through a 4 year program. The knowledge learned in the program is important too, but there is great value from the development of all those soft skills.

I think there is similar feelings towards post-university designations. My boss once told me that my designation is powerful in the workforce not only for the knowledge I acquired in it, but the hard work and soft skills that you must have in order to achieve it.
All true. What I can't understand is why the cost of attaining those skills has been increasing at twice the rate of inflation for more than 30 years now.
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