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Old 03-15-2017, 11:07 AM   #41
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Except, once again, American law. They are citing the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act, which according to the news articles includes a mandate for "equitable" support and funding for women's sport compared to men's. And while everyone is naturally getting hung up on wage demands, the team's letter spells out many other grievances, including failure to support development programs for girls.
In fact, "fair wages" is only mentioned once in the preamble of the letter, and the remaining three sentences are predominantly dedicated to spelling out the need for "equitable support" and "fair treatment."
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:07 AM   #42
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If they don't like it, don't play anymore. It's as simple as that. No one if forcing these women to play for the US National team. Most of them have a free University Education they received as a result of playing hockey, use those, get a career, and move on.
So, since they earned themselves something from one place (an education), they should be happy to be screwed by someone else (USA Hockey)? That makes sense.

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This whole women's sports should be treated the same as men's sports from a compensation/funding perspective is completely BS at that high of a level of sport. At the grass roots level, I completely agree. At that level, it should be you eat what you kill.
Why is it "BS"? They aren't asking for an NHL wage here. They are asking to be treated the same as other athletes in similar programs. Now whether or not the government should be paying anyone to play sports is open to argument, but if some guy is getting paid X to play Olympic-level volleyball, why shouldn't these women be paid the same to play hockey?
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:07 AM   #43
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USA Hockey also funds that.
We don't know how much is from the NHL ear marked specifically for the boys program.

Since there's a law mandating that they spend the same amount on both, isn't it probable that the NHL funds whatever isn't matched in the womens program?
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:11 AM   #44
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We don't know how much is from the NHL ear marked specifically for the boys program.

Since there's a law mandating that they spend the same amount on both, isn't it probable that the NHL funds whatever isn't matched in the womens program?
What the NHL earmarks is completely irrelevant. We do know that USA Hockey spends $3.5 million on the boys, but has no equivalent program for girls.

Also, like the wage issue, this is also just one part of the complaint. They listed off about eight areas where they feel USA Hockey is deficient. How many are legitimate issues that require addressing is something none of us will know for certain given current information.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:16 AM   #45
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http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/d...1-16_FINAL.pdf

If the NHL is funding the Development program then it makes sense that they don't have a similar program for girls.
The NHL pays for every draft pick from teams in developmental leagues. Well that's not entirely true. They don't pay CJHL teams. But the USNTDP had 9 alumni drafted in the 1st round of the NHL last year - that will be worth a good chunk of money from the NHL.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:22 AM   #46
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So, since they got earned themselves something from one place (an education), they should be happy to be screwed by someone else (USA Hockey)? That makes sense.



Why is it "BS"? They aren't asking for an NHL wage here. They are asking to be treated the same as other athletes in similar programs. Now whether or not the government should be paying anyone to play sports is open to argument, but if some guy is getting paid X to play Olympic-level volleyball, why shouldn't these women be paid the same to play hockey?
That not the law. The government doesn't pay athlete wages. The associations for each sport does. US Soccer can afford to pay their athletes a lot more than US Kayaking or something. Any additional government grants or awards are probably even.

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What the NHL earmarks is completely irrelevant. We do know that USA Hockey spends $3.5 million on the boys, but has no equivalent program for girls.

Also, like the wage issue, this is also just one part of the complaint. They listed off about eight areas where they feel USA Hockey is deficient. How many are legitimate issues that require addressing is something none of us will know for certain given current information.
What do you mean irrelevant?

If the NHL gives 3.5 million to USA Hockey for a boys development program then USA Hockey can't be held responsible for not funding a similar program for girls.

Also is the law per player? There were 463,000+ registered boys players and 69,000+ registered girl players in the US.

You think both should get 3.5 million for development?
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:24 AM   #47
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So, since they got earned themselves something from one place (an education), they should be happy to be screwed by someone else (USA Hockey)? That makes sense.



Why is it "BS"? They aren't asking for an NHL wage here. They are asking to be treated the same as other athletes in similar programs. Now whether or not the government should be paying anyone to play sports is open to argument, but if some guy is getting paid X to play Olympic-level volleyball, why shouldn't these women be paid the same to play hockey?
USA Hockey is not a job, they are the ones making the choice to subject themselves to it.

We aren't talking about children here. We are talking about grown women. If someone in Volleyball makes "X" and Volleyball as a sport brings in more money to substantiate that amount, why should someone in another sport who doesn't bring enough money to substantiate that amount receive that in the name of fairness?

If these woman can prove that USA Hockey is making money off of them and they aren't receiving a fair piece of the pie, i'd be much more sympathetic and understanding, but I highly doubt this is the case. Hockey is an extremely expensive sport, these women travel all over the world, practice at the best facilities with the best equipment. If that's not enough for them for what amounts to an amature hobby, than move on.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:31 AM   #48
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does the USA even need the USNTDP anymore?

at one point it made sense because there wasn't anything similar to the CHL in the USA, but with the emergence of the USHL producing top talent, there is a valid argument that the USNTDP should be scaled back or even eliminated and it's money used elsewhere.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:32 AM   #49
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What do you mean irrelevant?

If the NHL gives 3.5 million to USA Hockey for a boys development program then USA Hockey can't be held responsible for not funding a similar program for girls.

Also is the law per player? There were 463,000+ registered boys players and 69,000+ registered girl players in the US.

You think both should get 3.5 million for development?
The law says that USA Hockey has a requirement to offer "equitable" treatment for the women. Does that literally mean $3.5 million for a women's national development team? I can't say. But I can say that $0 is not the right answer either.

As to your first question, where USA Hockey gets its funding is irrelevant. So even if you could demonstrate that that $3.5 million comes from the NHL originally, it is still USA Hockey ultimately spending that $3.5 million on a men's program and failing to offer an equitable program for the women.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:37 AM   #50
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does the USA even need the USNTDP anymore?

at one point it made sense because there wasn't anything similar to the CHL in the USA, but with the emergence of the USHL producing top talent, there is a valid argument that the USNTDP should be scaled back or even eliminated and it's money used elsewhere.
USNTDP is a stop gap between before going to College for the Grade A prospects. If they removed the USNTDP, the high end talent would not be going to the USHL, they would be going to the CHL and thus the NCAA would lose a lot of talent due to eligibility.

Essentially the USNTDP keeps kids in the high end US prospects in the NCAA system. From that perspective i'm assuming the Americans consider it as necessary. From a true development perspective, probably not so much anymore.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:38 AM   #51
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USNTDP is a stop gap between before going to College for the Grade A prospects. If they removed the USNTDP, the high end talent would not be going to the USHL, they would be going to the CHL and thus the NCAA would lose a lot of talent due to eligibility.

Essentially the USNTDP keeps kids in the high end US prospects in the NCAA system.
More and more USNTDP graduates are going to the CHL anyways, not a valid point in my opinion.

Anyways the point of the USNTDP is develop players, not keep players for the NCAA.

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Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM   #52
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Then maybe the NCAA needs to do a grass roots thing and give money to the USNTDP if it there for their benefit.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM   #53
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That not the law. The government doesn't pay athlete wages. The associations for each sport does. US Soccer can afford to pay their athletes a lot more than US Kayaking or something. Any additional government grants or awards are probably even.
Sounds like maybe theyre not.
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:45 AM   #54
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More and more USNTDP graduates are going to the CHL anyways, not a valid point in my opinion.
It is a valid point. They'd all be going if it wasn't for the USNTDP. By more and more, you mean like 1 or 2 a year right? More often than not it's because they don't have the marks to get into school or have started school and done something stupid on campus. They use the USNTDP team like a weapon down there. You don't do your time in it and go to the CHL directly, you don't play on the World Junior team. Look at the list of players that get left off every year.

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Old 03-15-2017, 11:46 AM   #55
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then maybe the ncaa needs to do a grass roots thing and give money to the usntdp if it there for their benefit.
nm

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Old 03-15-2017, 11:47 AM   #56
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Then maybe the NCAA needs to do a grass roots thing and give money to the USNTDP if it there for their benefit.
The NCAA isn't giving a penny to anyone in this lifetime. No matter which sport or gender.

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Old 03-15-2017, 11:47 AM   #57
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Then maybe the NCAA needs to do a grass roots thing and give money to the USNTDP if it there for their benefit.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:03 PM   #58
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It is a valid point. They'd all be going if it wasn't for the USNTDP. By more and more, you mean like 1 or 2 a year right? More often than not it's because they don't have the marks to get into school or have started school and done something stupid on campus. They use the USNTDP team like a weapon down there. You don't do your time in it and go to the CHL directly, you don't play on the World Junior team. Look at the list of players that get left off every year.

It is not 1 or 2 per year.

Just looking up the 2014-2015 USNTDP team. Did not go to the NCAA after leaving the program.

Auston Matthews
Matthew Tkachuk
Christian Fischer
Jeremy Bracco
Max Jones
Caleb Jones


Even if it was true they were using it as a weapon in terms of the WJC, there is no reason they can't use it as a weapon in the USHL. Play in the USHL or you won't be considered for the WJC.

You do realize a large part of the USNTDP program is to play against USHL teams?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:06 PM   #59
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I thought that the Canadian women are paid on a similar basis as other carded Olympic athletes.

I wonder how the coaches are paid?
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:18 PM   #60
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It is not 1 or 2 per year.

Just looking up the 2014-2015 USNTDP team. Did not go to the NCAA after leaving the program.

Auston Matthews
Matthew Tkachuk
Christian Fischer
Jeremy Bracco
Max Jones
Caleb Jones


Even if it was true they were using it as a weapon in terms of the WJC, there is no reason they can't use it as a weapon in the USHL. Play in the USHL or you won't be considered for the WJC.

You do realize a large part of the USNTDP program is to play against USHL teams?
Auston Matthews is a generational player and didn't have the marks to get into school even if it was necessary.

Tkatchuk and Jones are the sons of wealthy professional athletes and cared only about getting to the NHL. School is an after thought.

Jeremy Bracco actually showed up at Boston College and left (there are several rumors floating around, true or not, as to why that occurred).

Max Jones and Christina Fischer did just leave the program.

2014-2015 was an odd year for the USNTDP, so you picked up a good one for your point, but even then of the 33 players on that rosters, those are the only few that did it, most of which have extenuating circumstances.

Point remains though, without the USNTDP, there's a hell of a lot more of those kids in the CHL.
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