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Old 10-20-2016, 03:02 PM   #41
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The Blue Jays Should Rebuild

Interesting article.

Agree, disagree?
While I appreciate the idea and remember that before the Jays went out and grabbed Price and Tulo last year many, including me, were thinking that it was time to start offering older guys up for sale, I don't think i have ever seen a team other than the Florida Marlins rebuild/fire sale the team after successful years in the playoffs.

Rebuilds tend to happen when the team poops the bed.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:09 PM   #42
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While I appreciate the idea and remember that before the Jays went out and grabbed Price and Tulo last year many, including me, were thinking that it was time to start offering older guys up for sale, I don't think i have ever seen a team other than the Florida Marlins rebuild/fire sale the team after successful years in the playoffs.

Rebuilds tend to happen when the team poops the bed.
Yeap. I don't think the Jays should rebuild this off season.

Not with the pitching staff they have, especially the starting rotation.

They have one of the best rotations in the league. Plus the cost of that rotation and their 3 best relievers will come in at about $50 million or less. Pretty good bargain for what they are getting there.

What they need to do IMO is retool the position players around Donaldson, Tulo, Martin and Travis. I'd also add EE to that list if they can come to an agreement.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:23 PM   #43
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I think it is time to move on from Jose no matter what you can sign him for.
Put the ball club in the hands of the new leadership group - led by JD.

Jose's ego will not allow him to accept the reduced role that he needs to - particularly in Toronto.
Jose proved that he is not what this teams needs moving forward in the ALCS this year. At times, he looked like he was turning the corner the last month or so but he continually fell victim to trying to do things he simply no longer can do.

The last thing this teams needs is an overpriced 100 game per year DH that can't do much more than bat in the low 200's and draw the odd walk. Put that money to better use and bring in some versatile fielders that have the potential to break out in full time roles.

If you can sign EE for something less than insanity your money would be much better spent provided Jose is gone. This team can compete for another year or two with the infield and starting pitching depth it has. No need to through in the towel because one, maybe two guys walk.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:34 PM   #44
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jose proved that he is not what this teams needs moving forward in the alcs this year. At times, he looked like he was turning the corner the last month or so but he continually fell victim to trying to do things he simply no longer can do.

The last thing this teams needs is an overpriced 100 game per year dh that can't do much more than bat in the low 200's and draw the odd walk. put that money to better use and bring in some versatile fielders that have the potential to break out in full time roles.

if you can sign ee for something less than insanity your money would be much better spent provided jose is gone. This team can compete for another year or two with the infield and starting pitching depth it has. No need to through in the towel because one, maybe two guys walk.
puig!
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:43 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
The Blue Jays Should Rebuild

Interesting article.

Agree, disagree?
Disagree,

Jays have the pitching in place to contend.

Position players are the problem, I would think this is something they can address in the off-season.
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:19 PM   #46
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:20 PM   #47
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yeah, I'd rather have to address the field than the rotation.
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:50 PM   #48
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It would sure be nice if Pompey could take the bull by the horns next season.

He gives you some youth, speed, above average defense and switch hits.

If he could just be an average bat with a low K rate he'd really fill a need nice and cheap from within.
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:51 PM   #49
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Still wondering how Smoak got extended.
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:59 PM   #50
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When the Jays have 3 first round picks this year from losing Bautista and EE they will be on the way.

Then Estrada after next year (or at the deadline) then Donaldson asking for a trade/letting them know he will not be signing with them.

The article seems to think Donaldson will sit around in his prime if the team tears down their lineup.... Ummm Not going to happen!

Don't worry the rebuild is coming! Best case is one more run at the playoffs next year

(Yes overly pessimistic but a real scenario possibility)

Would help if we had developed a hitter in the last 20 years since Vernon Wells!
Just curious, what impact do first round picks have in baseball? I seem to hear a whole lot less about players' draft pedigree in baseball than I do in other sports.
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Old 10-20-2016, 05:18 PM   #51
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Shapiro and Atkins have been pretty crafty at getting veteran guys who aren't performing in their current situation and changing the scenery while getting the other club to pick up a fair bit of salary.

I might look for them to maybe cobble together something like the 2013 Red Sox team was to try and make a run at it next year, knowing that an overhaul is going to have to follow up. I think they'll focus on veterans who are struggling to fill gaps and attempt to start getting some real home grown position players in the pipeline.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:14 PM   #52
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A lot of ripping on AA recently and really hyping up Atkins and ShaPIro. I'm not going to rip on AA at all. The only two prospects he should've held onto in hindsight were Syndergaard and maybe Daniel Norris. And that was in hindsight. Every other deal where he gave up prospects, they didn't pan out. At the time there weren't that great prospects anyway, and we almost all agreed that the Jays came out winners.

Atkins and Shapiro made some very good deals for their relief and starting pitching staff, that's for sure. But look at the batters they've brought in. Those haven't gained me any confidence in their abilities yet. I really want to see what their busy off-season does before proclaiming them better than AA, because they haven't shown that as Jays execs yet.
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Old 10-20-2016, 08:28 PM   #53
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Even Thor they said the Mets completely changed his delivery so good chance he doesn't become what he is with the Jays
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:13 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy View Post
It would sure be nice if Pompey could take the bull by the horns next season.

He gives you some youth, speed, above average defense and switch hits.

If he could just be an average bat with a low K rate he'd really fill a need nice and cheap from within.
I don't think Pompey is ever going to amount to much. If he wasn't Canadian he'd just be another bubble AAA guy.
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:26 PM   #55
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A lot of ripping on AA recently and really hyping up Atkins and ShaPIro. I'm not going to rip on AA at all. The only two prospects he should've held onto in hindsight were Syndergaard and maybe Daniel Norris. And that was in hindsight. Every other deal where he gave up prospects, they didn't pan out. At the time there weren't that great prospects anyway, and we almost all agreed that the Jays came out winners.

Atkins and Shapiro made some very good deals for their relief and starting pitching staff, that's for sure. But look at the batters they've brought in. Those haven't gained me any confidence in their abilities yet. I really want to see what their busy off-season does before proclaiming them better than AA, because they haven't shown that as Jays execs yet.
He traded so many prospects he was bound to get burned at some point. It isn't a positive that only a few made the Jays look bad, it was an inevitability.
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:53 PM   #56
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Josh Reddick checks off a bunch of boxes. Bats left, plays RF and has some speed and pop.

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Old 10-20-2016, 11:09 PM   #57
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Just curious, what impact do first round picks have in baseball?
Not much, most of them bust. It's not like the other sports... a first round pick isn't even a good bet to be a career major leaguer. It's one of the reasons you so rarely see a scorched earth rebuild in MLB.
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:11 PM   #58
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Josh Reddick checks off a bunch of boxes. Bats left, plays RF and has some speed and pop.

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He's also good friends with Donaldson.
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:26 PM   #59
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Not much, most of them bust. It's not like the other sports... a first round pick isn't even a good bet to be a career major leaguer. It's one of the reasons you so rarely see a scorched earth rebuild in MLB.
http://www.fangraphs.com/community/s...picks-by-slot/
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:22 AM   #60
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I take the 2017 year to make another run. As Jays fans know all too well, teams can go into lengthy funks, so when the chance is there you grab it. Go all in!

Moves:

Add two of Reddick/Bruce/Puig - Defense probably takes a hit, but you would still have Upton and Carrera to platoon/defensive replacement.

Say no to Chapmen, but sign a good reliever, someone with a chance to be a Miller lite. I am not sure who out there would fit that category. Failing that, get a few relievers that have been good in the past but had down years. Relievers are so volatile you are better to bank on the past then just one good last season.

If the Reds are willing to move Votto - do the damn deal! Either they pay some salary and they send prospects or the Jays just eat the salary (seeming more likely now that they will spend) and only have to trade C level guys.

Roll with the rotation as is and sign a couple depth guys that can be swing men or pitch in AAA, can never have too much starting pitching.
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