BC Election - May 9th, 2017

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Serious question: Do the NDP or Greens propose a fix to this?

I'm currently in the "Liberals stink the least" camp, but have to admit that I'm fairly uninformed about Provincial politics due to my choice of news viewing (I watch ~5 hours of Charlie Rose per week, and ~1/2 hour of assorted other stuff which may or may not include local news).

If the NDP return to an infrastructure plan that minimizes p3 infrastructure projects, which all indications appear they will, that alone will save the province a significant amount of money.

I feel like people outside the province, and many inside the province, simply don't have a grasp on how far into debt the province is, and how ticky-tacky the user fee and tax increases have become.

I'm paying 15% more for alcohol now than I was in 2015, and businesses that sell alcohol are hurting a lot as a result. I'm paying more than 10% more for basic auto insurance than in 2015 and my msp premiums have risen about 40% in the last 5 years.

But surely they are small business friendly? Not according to the cheese eating communists at the Fraser Institute:

British Columbia’s provincial budget (released yesterday) announced a tax cut for small businesses, which is being billed as part of the government’s plan to “help businesses create jobs, grow and compete.”

While tax cuts can often be a tool for encouraging businesses to grow, this specific tax cut is problematic. In fact, the proposed reduction in the small business tax rate may actually discourage some businesses from growing.

This is because cutting the small business rate will reinforce an existing problem in the province’s tax system. Under the province’s current tax system, a business is taxed at a rate of 2.5 per cent for the first $500,000 of net income. Above this threshold, business net income is taxed at the general corporate tax rate of 11 per cent. Research suggests that the gap between the small business and general corporate tax rate can discourage businesses from expanding and perhaps hiring more workers.

And the government is proposing to widen the gap by reducing the small business rate from 2.5 to 2.0 per cent, effective April 1 this year. For a business that steps over the $500,000 threshold, that means every extra dollar of net income earned will be taxed at a rate that is five and half times the small business rate. From the perspective of business owners, the tax structure adds to the cost of growing the business, possibly making expansion a less worthwhile endeavor.

Here's more from those noted pinko commie bastards at the Fraser Institute:

According to calculations by tax policy expert and University of Calgary professor Jack Mintz, BC’s overall tax rate on new investment is now the highest in the country at 27.5 percent, up from 17.8 per cent before the PST’s reintroduction. For perspective, the rate in neighbouring Alberta is 17.0 per cent.

BC is competing with other provinces (and U.S. states) for investment, so the harsh reality is that BC risks losing investment and jobs that will instead gravitate to jurisdictions with more competitive tax policies.

Despite inaction on this issue, de Jong seems to understand the magnitude of the problem. At recent presentation on his budget, he acknowledged as much but worried about finding the fiscal room necessary to take action.

With the HST a political non-starter, a second-best tax reform option begins with the government’s own Expert Panel on Business Taxation recommendation: introduce a refundable investment tax credit equal to the PST paid on machinery and equipment.

Our best estimate is that 40 per cent of the government’s $5.6 billion in PST revenue is from sales tax on business inputs (the amount on capital-based inputs would certainly be less). That means de Jong needs to make up at most a $2.2 billion gap.

One place to look for the money is in the government’s nearly $6 billion in tax expenditures. The province currently provides special tax breaks for certain activities through the personal ($2.5 billion), corporate ($558 million), property ($986 million), fuel ($57 million), and sales ($1.9 billion) tax systems. These tax expenditures represent foregone revenue and in many cases are economically ineffective, reward activities that would be undertaken anyway, and disproportionately benefit certain groups and industries at the expense of the broader population.

For instance, in 2012 the BC government announced the introduction of the Children’s Fitness Tax Credit, piggy-backing on the federal program. However, a recent study published in the Canadian Tax Journal found that the tax credit has done little to actually influence parent decisions on enrolment in a fitness program and has disproportionately benefited higher income households. Similar inequities have been found with tax credits for tuition and education.

Research on corporate tax expenditures also casts doubt on the effectiveness of special industry privileges. The tax credit for film and TV is a clear example, which is slated to cost the provincial treasury $167 million this year. Contrary to industry claims, independent research including by the U.S.-based Tax Foundation concludes that film subsidies “cost the treasury more than they recoup from taxes on induced economic activity.”

Obviously there are significant drawbacks to an NDP government but I would happily take the 90s NDP economic numbers over the last 15 years of BC Liberal rule.

If Notley had added 18 billion in debt to a comparable utility in a 6 year period I cannot imagine how loud the crowing would be. I mean, look at it this way, the cost to phase out alberta's coal plants could end up being less than the debt added to BC hydro already, and phasing out coal will actually accomplish something for the province of Alberta.

To put it in perspective, BC crown corporations have acquired more debt during Christy Clark's 6 years in office than the entire NDP government racked up for the province in a decade in power. When the provincial NDP and the Fraser Institute are more or less in agreement, I feel like there is a pretty solid case for this being reality.

In the BC Liberal's own budget they project the total provincial debt to rise to 77 billion by 2020. That figure was a lowly 25 billion just 7 years ago.

I voted for Michael Chong in the CPC leadership race and I'll be holding my nose while voting NDP in the provincial election. What does that tell you about me as a voter?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I really don't like the liberals, but the NDP give me zero reason to vote for them. The green party is a joke, so where does that leave me?

How do you feel about Norway?

[Winsor_Pilates]

This election really sucks. I don't think I've spoken to anyone who is excited for the party they're voting for.

[peter12]

Flash making the best case for voting NDP so far.

[OMG!WTF!]

This should help poor people...27 billion in new houses!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...tics-1.4091560

But surely they are small business friendly? Not according to the cheese eating communists at the Fraser Institute:

So, the NDP are going to increase the corporate tax gap by raising the high end to 12%. How is that fixing anything?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

In the BC Liberal's own budget they project the total provincial debt to rise to 77 billion by 2020. That figure was a lowly 25 billion just 7 years ago.

This is horrible. It's basically unjustifiable. In fact it's so bad that debt to gdp is almost back where it was in the late 1990's - not quite, but almost. If there was another reasonable option to cast your ballot for, I'd be right there with you. But it's the NDP... do you honestly think that debt level is going to lower with them in power?

This ^ one program alone looks to be as much as $30 billion. On one thing. That makes no actual policy sense.

I understand that your main issue seems to be spending, and I totally sympathize, I just don't get why you think the NDP won't be worse.

[Mr.Coffee]

Yikes. Canada is in trouble...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This is horrible. It's basically unjustifiable. In fact it's so bad that debt to gdp is almost back where it was in the late 1990's - not quite, but almost. If there was another reasonable option to cast your ballot for, I'd be right there with you. But it's the NDP... do you honestly think that debt level is going to lower with them in power?

This ^ one program alone looks to be as much as $30 billion. On one thing. That makes no actual policy sense.

I understand that your main issue seems to be spending, and I totally sympathize, I just don't get why you think the NDP won't be worse.

It doesn't matter who you leave in power, if they don't get kicked out every few years they will rob you blind and screw everything up

[rubecube]

Advance voting up big in this election. I tend to think that's better news for the NDP than the Liberals but we'll see.

http://www.cknw.com/2017/05/02/advan...-elections-bc/

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Advance voting up big in this election. I tend to think that's better news for the NDP than the Liberals but we'll see.

http://www.cknw.com/2017/05/02/advan...-elections-bc/

On Wednesday I voted by an advance vote for the first time. I don't think it will shock anyone that I did not vote for the NDPs. I'm not sure if advance voting has always been this easy, but I was driving home, saw the signs, pulled in, voted and was back in my car 5 minutes later. There were no line ups, and the people working there were efficient. In my riding there are 6 days of advance voting, with each of these days open from 8am-8pm. If it's always been like that, then I've been missing out. If this much time allocated to advance voting is new, than that's a great idea. I've always voted on election day, and sometimes it's made that day a little hectic for me. I'm glad they give me options.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

In the BC Liberal's own budget they project the total provincial debt to rise to 77 billion by 2020. That figure was a lowly 25 billion just 7 years ago.

Do you have a link for this?
Seems like something not enough people in BC are discussing, and would be nice to verify.

NM, found it:
http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/PT/dmb/ref/debtSummary.pdf

[opendoor]

I think the total debt was closer to $40B 7 years ago if you include Crown Corporations (which are included in the $77.7B number). But yeah, they'll have basically doubled the province's debt in 10 years.

[FlameOn]

People in BC are angry. Apparently there's been a huge system of tax giveaways that have resulted in over $140 million given away to corporations under the Advantage BC program under the auspice of job creation with almost minimal created. Rules are opaque on how tax breaks are doled out, there is no oversight and the companies, no guidance on how many "jobs" are created and no published list of participating companies

VANCOUVER, British Columbia — British Columbia is well known for its spectacular landscape and outdoorsy living, its swanky urban real estate and bouillabaisse of cultures.

A fact not so well known? It has a sweet deal for businesses, offering them tax breaks in an unusually opaque arrangement.

Like many places, British Columbia set up a system of tax incentives to lure businesses to the far western Canadian province in the hopes of creating jobs and transforming Vancouver into a global financial center.

But if the program has been good for business, it’s been less beneficial for British Columbia.

Participating companies have created few jobs, according to government figures, while more than 140 million Canadian dollars ($106 million) have been doled out in tax refunds since 2008, when the initiative was expanded.

As Companies Seek Tax Deals, Governments Pay High Price DEC. 1, 2012
The incentives operate under a cloak of secrecy that is unusual for similar efforts in Canada and the United States, critics say. The province will not name the companies that get the breaks. The only information available about them is on the website of a nonprofit that promotes the program.

“This is essentially a temporary foreign-worker program for the rich, with secret government subsidies for multinational corporations,” said Dermod Travis, the executive director of IntegrityBC, a nonpartisan political watchdog group based in Victoria, the provincial capital. “The government is selling B.C. as a tax haven for the global elite to park investment here, but not have to contribute.”

The provincial Ministry of Finance, which runs the effort, says it is a success, with 82 companies participating. Jamie Edwardson, a spokesman for the ministry, declined in an email to identify those companies or discuss the amount of refunds each has received, citing a ban on publicly disclosing taxpayer information in the law that created the incentives. He said the law protects taxpayer privacy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/02/w...=tw-share&_r=0

[afc wimbledon]

I get constant calls and texts from the NDP, not one from the liberals so far

[rubecube]

We're totally heading for four more years of Christy Clark. Corruption with the BC Liberals is already off the charts. I can't even imagine what this province is going to look like in another four years.

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Advance voting up big in this election. I tend to think that's better news for the NDP than the Liberals but we'll see.

http://www.cknw.com/2017/05/02/advan...-elections-bc/

They were up in the latest us and UK elections as well

A lot of it ended up being older voters who skew liberal in this case

I don't think it can be read in to

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by rubecube

We're totally heading for four more years of Christy Clark. Corruption with the BC Liberals is already off the charts. I can't even imagine what this province is going to look like in another four years.

I know. And what is in store with a party that wants to spend hundreds of millions in daycare, eliminate bridge tolls, etc. Zero plan how they'll pay for it.

It's like a drunk dad and overcompensating mom offering gifts to get their kids to pick the best one. They're awful choices

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Still no clue who to vote for. I don't want to even vote this time around. I just feel like I should.

[dino7c]

###### or turd?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I know. And what is in store with a party that wants to spend hundreds of millions in daycare, eliminate bridge tolls, etc. Zero plan how they'll pay for it.

It's like a drunk dad and overcompensating mom offering gifts to get their kids to pick the best one. They're awful choices

Pick your poison. Tax cuts for the wealthy that we can't afford or social services we can't afford. The NDP pretty much bought my vote when they said they'd eliminate interest on student loans because I can't think of a single reason why I would vote for the Liberals.