Markus Granlund Ceiling

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

He probably didn't know what you meant by sick.

I don't think I actually said "sick". I just told him it was a really nice play and that I felt he was responsible for the goal.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Table 5

^ That's some seriously pathetic drafting there.

Yep. We all know about the 1st round busts the Flames have had over the years, but if anything the 2nd round picks have been worse.

[herashak]

Id like him as our 2nd line LW long term, unless baert can pass him.

[ThatsRobbery]

Well my future lines if everyone hit mostly on their potential

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Sven-Bennett-Poirer
Ferland-Granlund-Byron
Bouma-Backlund-Jooris

Now this is really damn optimistic, but that could be some ridiculous scoring depth and solid 2-way play, and that doesn't include many of our other prospects like Klimchuk etc. Plus you can mix and match anyway you want and could have some effective lines.

[robbie111]

Originally Posted by ThatsRobbery

Well my future lines if everyone hit mostly on their potential

Gaudreau-Monahan-Colborne
Sven-Bennett-Poirer
Ferland-Granlund-Byron
Bouma-Backlund-Jooris

Now this is really damn optimistic, but that could be some ridiculous scoring depth and solid 2-way play, and that doesn't include many of our other prospects like Klimchuk etc. Plus you can mix and match anyway you want and could have some effective lines.

Don't know if there is a team in the NHL that could keep up to that lineup speed wise. Chicago had to ice the puck numerous times in the third to catch their breath and slow the pace of the game down and I think they (Chicago) are one of the fastest teams in the league and I thought they struggled to keep up to the Flames speed and that was without Poirier and Bennett in the lineup.

[ThatsRobbery]

Originally Posted by robbie111

Don't know if there is a team in the NHL that could keep up to that lineup speed wise. Chicago had to ice the puck numerous times in the third to catch their breath and slow the pace of the game down and I think they (Chicago) are one of the fastest teams in the league and I thought they struggled to keep up to the Flames speed and that was without Poirier and Bennett in the lineup.

Exactly and the beauty is you could mix up the lines for certain situations. Want even more speed on say the "2nd line" with Bennett/Poirer, throw Johnny or Byron or Jooris up there. Want a bigger line to grind, put Ferland with Mon/Colborne or switch Colborne and Jooris or w/e. Want a super-skillful line. Put Johnny on RW and put him, Sven and Granlund/Bennett together. Want a high-possession line for a bit, put Backs on a wing with Monny and Byron. Its an excited mix of players

[djsFlames]

I think he might turn out to be a better Backlund. Although Backs is still young I don't think his ceiling is much higher than how he's played the past season or so. 20g 50pt at his peak. Granlund looks quite similar but with a better and quicker shot, and think he could be an above 50pt player.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I think he might turn out to be a better Backlund. Although Backs is still young I don't think his ceiling is much higher than how he's played the past season or so. 20g 50pt at his peak. Granlund looks quite similar but with a better and quicker shot, and think he could be an above 50pt player.

Backlund may never reach his ceiling, but I really don't think its 20g and 50 pts... the guy has a ton of skill. Might not translate and he might end up a 2nd line C, but he's got a ton of skill.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Backlund may never reach his ceiling, but I really don't think its 20g and 50 pts... the guy has a ton of skill. Might not translate and he might end up a 2nd line C, but he's got a ton of skill.

Backlund's ceiling has an injury barrier in the way. We may never know how good he could have been. This latest one is pretty concerning. Hopefully Granlund escapes this.

[waner]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

I mean Granlund clearly plays the center position well. Faceoffs are only one (arguably overrated) part of that and typically the last thing a young center gets right.

Why would you think FO's are overrated?

If he is going to be a PP he is likely to face better than average FO guys and if he loses that puck is iced and that kills 25 seconds of the penalty right there. We saw the past two season when the Flames were getting killed on the FO how tough it was for them to get the puck back at times. I remember a Kings game where they just iced the puck to kill time and relieve pressure because Stoll/Kopitar had no concern about losing the FO.

It obviously comes behind passing, scoring etc. but being bad at FO's is a real disadvantage for a team as it makes it that much harder to gain control of the puck and set up what you want to do.

There is obviously still only a small sample size so he has time to get it up to where it needs to be and likely will get better with experience but at the very minimum if he can't get his FO percentage above 46/47% it is tough to see him as a center long term.

[GioforPM]

Not many rookie centres can get over 50% in FOs. It's one of the biggest area that keeps getting better with experience. Monahan has improved immensely. I think Granlund will as well.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by waner

Why would you think FO's are overrated?

If he is going to be a PP he is likely to face better than average FO guys and if he loses that puck is iced and that kills 25 seconds of the penalty right there. We saw the past two season when the Flames were getting killed on the FO how tough it was for them to get the puck back at times. I remember a Kings game where they just iced the puck to kill time and relieve pressure because Stoll/Kopitar had no concern about losing the FO.

It obviously comes behind passing, scoring etc. but being bad at FO's is a real disadvantage for a team as it makes it that much harder to gain control of the puck and set up what you want to do.

There is obviously still only a small sample size so he has time to get it up to where it needs to be and likely will get better with experience but at the very minimum if he can't get his FO percentage above 46/47% it is tough to see him as a center long term.

Like you say it's important in key situations, not denying that, and a high average indicates that the player is who you want taking those faceoffs.

There have been some who don't see much of a correlation between winning and winning faceoffs but I'm not one of them. Particularly during key moments I appreciate centers who are great at faceoffs.

But it's still overrated in the sense that there's too much emphasis on it both in some forum discussions and sometimes broadcasts where they seem to be making note of every win and loss.

They are nice because you can count them, but a center has more important responsibilities that can't be quantified so easily.

One thing to remember is that who wins a faceoffs depends partly on the other forwards as well. It's decided by who gains possession, not just by what happens at the dot.

I don't see why Granlund couldn't get at least relatively close to 50% average. There are some players who are exceptional at faceoffs but for most I don't think a couple of points this way or that way makes a huge difference.

[GioforPM]

I don't think FOs are overrated. I do think we general fans look at the overall % too much and don't focus on situational FOs, or analyze to compensate or account for good wingers who are scrum face off puck grabbers.

I'd throw out any neutral zone FOs, especially period starters, in looking at a centre's stats.

[Jiggy]

I might be out to lunch on this one, but Granlund reminds me of David Krejci. If he even comes close to a player like that I'd be happy.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think FOs are overrated. I do think we general fans look at the overall % too much and don't focus on situational FOs, or analyze to compensate or account for good wingers who are scrum face off puck grabbers.

I'd throw out any neutral zone FOs, especially period starters, in looking at a centre's stats.

I agree they are overrated as long as you are semi competent at it. Once you dip below say 43% it becomes a concern.

Granlund plays a lot of Pk and and he's 5w-13l while short handed which means PP possession for the other team. On the road he's at 27.8% which means icing the puck when he's on the ice is basically giving the puck away when we play on the road.

I can't find zone specific stats.

And even for rookies - Granlund has been terrible - http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...sition/rookies

[Henry Fool]

If he's at 36% at the end of the season, maybe then there's a discussion, but even then I completely fail to see why you couldn't count on him improving with experience and coaching. Practically everyone does, so why would Granlund be an exception?

Right now he's 10 games in. Someone said that he did better last season. I doubt he's regressed, it's just small sample sizes.

[waner]

Originally Posted by Henry Fool

If he's at 36% at the end of the season, maybe then there's a discussion, but even then I completely fail to see why you couldn't count on him improving with experience and coaching. Practically everyone does, so why would Granlund be an exception?

Right now he's 10 games in. Someone said that he did better last season. I doubt he's regressed, it's just small sample sizes.

Last year he was 28w-26l so overall in his 17 games he is 87w-127l or 40.6%.

Still only 17 games so a small sample size but something that needs to improve if he is going to stay there in my opinion.

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by waner

Last year he was 28w-26l so overall in his 17 games he is 87w-127l or 40.6%.

Still only 17 games so a small sample size but something that needs to improve if he is going to stay there in my opinion.

Of course he needs to improve. I just don't see why he wouldn't. There's a reason why that 46% feels like the threshold and it's because almost everyone gets there given some time.

Right now, 36% feels so low that I think it's a safe bet it's going to correct itself. Feels like it has to be partly about the sample size. You could put Laddy Smid out there and he'd win a third of his faceoffs.

[Heavy Jack]

I was at the Phoenix, Anaheim and Chicago games (thanks to gettingiggywithit for some great seats once again!) And Markus was I guy I really focused on. He is slightly undersized for a centerman which is why I think he gets out worked sometimes on the faceoffs, a lot of the wins in the dot where clear wins for him so once he gets better at his timing I think his faceoff % will start to climb. I think the ceiling on him could be a more responsible Marc Savard, he has a great shot that he can unleash at a lot of different areas, likes to work along the boards, cycles the puck well. He's just another budding prospect for us that I enjoy watching play and of the plethora that we have boasted this year he seems to have the most mature game of the rookies this year which is really promising to see.