[News] Nieuwendyk - Forever a Flame - March 7th Ceremony

[Calgary4LIfe]

Not a popular opinion I am sure, but I hope they never honor (and especially retire) 14.

I am personally mixed on the honoring thing. Al should haven been retired, but he didn't want it at the time apparently. There are a lot of guys that have played huge roles on the team, and were great people on and off the ice, but just weren't at that level of retirement.

I would rather an organization be more picky than not personally. Only the true greats should get retired. I used to hate the honoring thing, but there are those next tier guys that just don't quite make the cut. Guess I am getting used to it.

Roberts, Loob and Mullen coming up I would hope! Does Gilmour make it? Otto?

[flamesfan1297]

All numbers should be retired in my opinion. The forever a Flame thing is just saying that you were not good enough to have your jersey retired. Kipper and Iggy better have their numbers retired though

[sun]

Don't like this program. Obviously Nieuwy is one of the best to lace them up for this team, but he's just not worthy of a retired number. So, don't half-ass it with a pseudo-retirement. It's weird.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Holding out was an acceptable option, but Joe didn't just hold out. He was still under contract with the flames for that season because he went to arb, but wanted a longer team deal.

Very few players have refused to flat out play with their name inked to a contract. This was really a rare circumstance in any era. Nothing like a regular RFA hold out.

This was an acceptable way to force a raise prior to the 2004 lockout. The league eventually sued the PA for supporting the players holding out and put specific language into the CBA after the 2004 lockout.

[Stay Golden]

Joe deserves all the accolades but this forever a Flame program is a joke. Retire the damn numbers. KKing and the owners are just plain weird about this topic and how they pay tribute to the history of the Flames that were here and played a huge part of what created a proud hockey fan base.

KKing and the Ownership come across as a group of people that reluctantly allow former great Flames to be honored by their fans.
They truly do not understand the importance of retiring a number. It is the ultimate tribute and thank you an organization can bestow back to a player.

9,30,2,14,25,34,12 should all be retired period. 10,29 should also be strongly considered.
KKing's argument to "honor" players is not what the fans want it was what the arrogance of Management/Ownership wants.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Joe deserves all the accolades but this forever a Flame program is a joke. Retire the damn numbers. KKing and the owners are just plain weird about this topic and how they pay tribute to the history of the Flames that were here and played a huge part of what created a proud hockey fan base.

KKing and the Ownership come across as a group of people that reluctantly allow former great Flames to be honored by their fans.
They truly do not understand the importance of retiring a number. It is the ultimate tribute and thank you an organization can bestow back to a player.

9,30,2,14,25,34,12 should all be retired period. 10,29 should also be strongly considered.
KKing's argument to "honor" players is not what the fans want it was what the arrogance of Management/Ownership wants.

Omg, the Flames haven't been around long enough, had enough success or had close to enough legendary players to warrant that lengthy retired number list. We can't just retire anyone's number who ever laced up the skates for the Flames and were solid players. The Flames would be out of 2 digit numbers I the next 50 years at that rate.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Omg, the Flames haven't been around long enough, had enough success or had close to enough legendary players to warrant that lengthy retired number list. We can't just retire anyone's number who ever laced up the skates for the Flames and were solid players. The Flames would be out of 2 digit numbers I the next 50 years at that rate.

really you sure 9,30 are retired 2,14 are not worn and neither will 34 or 12. Joe's 25 should be retired his career with the Flames speaks for itself.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

really you sure 9,30 are retired 2,14 are not worn and neither will 34 or 12. Joe's 25 should be retired his career with the Flames speaks for itself.

So does his departure.

He doesn't even deserve Forever a Flame

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

This was an acceptable way to force a raise prior to the 2004 lockout. The league eventually sued the PA for supporting the players holding out and put specific language into the CBA after the 2004 lockout.

How many players in the NHL held out with contracts prior to 2004?

[tvp2003]

Regardless of whether you like the program, the player, or whether someone else should have been recognized first, I'm glad the Flames are doing stuff like this. Just got my tickets -- looking forward to it!

From the Flames link:

This event will also mark the Calgary Flames annual “Retro Night” as we celebrate the history and tradition of the Calgary Flames. Forever a Flame continues to acknowledge former Flames players that will always be a part of the Flames family.

Any chance the Flames break out the retro jerseys? Wishful thinking I know...

[Bourque's Twin]

The following jerseys should be retired in the rafters:

McDonald #9
Vernon #30

Fleury #14
Iginla #12
Kiprusoff #34

Forever a Flame should not exist.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Regardless of whether you like the program, the player, or whether someone else should have been recognized first, I'm glad the Flames are doing stuff like this. Just got my tickets -- looking forward to it!

From the Flames link:



Any chance the Flames break out the retro jerseys? Wishful thinking I know...

I believe it's almost a guarantee.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

Kipper is hard because we never won while he was here and he wasn't "best Flame ever" like Iginla will be at his point of number retirement. However he was the best goalie we ever had and maybe ever will ... so it's tough. I personally think his number should be retired.

As for this Forever a Flame, the reaction when/if they try to do this for Iginla will be outrage ... so then what? Another retirement? They're setting themselves up here for a PR blemishing.

Well, that's up for debate too.

I think Kipper contributed more to this franchise winning than Iginla did while both were here.

Calgary was garbage before Kipper arrived and they are garbage now that he's gone.

I think he might be the greatest Flame of all time. Certainly debatable, but I don't think Iginla has anything on Kipper.

[nik-]

Personally I think Kipper saved this franchise so yeah I'm on the same page and would totally support his retirement. I just understand how some would argue against it. It's not an Iginla like slam dunk tenure wise.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Well, that's up for debate too.

I think Kipper contributed more to this franchise winning than Iginla did while both were here.

Calgary was garbage before Kipper arrived and they are garbage now that he's gone.

I think he might be the greatest Flame of all time. Certainly debatable, but I don't think Iginla has anything on Kipper.

That's easy to counter. The Flames were garbage until Iginla turned into an elite forward, and returned to being garbage as he declined.

The Flames were garbage before Darryl Sutter came in and built an actual team. They returned to being garbage when he forgot how to build a team.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That's easy to counter. The Flames were garbage until Iginla turned into an elite forward, and returned to being garbage as he declined.

The Flames were garbage before Darryl Sutter came in and built an actual team. They returned to being garbage when he forgot how to build a team.

Well the Flames were still a garbage team back when Iginla turned into an elite power forward back when he put up his first 50 goal season in 2001-02 (and should have won the Hart). You could tell things were slowly turning around, but that changed in rapid succession the day Sutter traded for Kiprusoff. In 2003-04 the Flames were 24-10-4 with Kiprusoff in net, and 18-23-3 with the other three (Turek, McLennan, Sabourin), and that's with Turek holding up the fort in relief of Kipper in January and February. Without Kiprusoff in net the Flames would have missed the playoffs, and wouldn't of had much success in later years without major improvements elsewhere.

I think all three are owed a great debt to the success of the Flames, and obviously Sutter should be charged with our failures as well. Both Iginla and Kiprusoff deserve the highest honors in my view being the best two positional players in the history of the Flames (MacInnis being the best defender). Most people probably consider Iginla to be the greatest Calgary Flame of all time, and it's hard to argue that. Jarome was a great player, a true leader, and a great person both on and off the ice; and I doubt there is a single true hockey fan that dislikes him. However you could also make a credible argument Kiprusoff was more important in the turnaround; either way though there is no Cup run in 2004 without both of them. Both most certainly deserve to have their numbers retired, and I honestly don't think that point is even debatable.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Absolute embarrassment for me as a Flames fan how the organization disregards Theo's contributions to the organization.

The Flames went out of their way to bring an old burn-out Theo back for a few preseason games so he could retire as a Flame...that's a pretty damn nice gesture if you ask me.

Honestly, if Theo learned to keep his opinions to himself a little more, he'd be up in the rafters by now. It's often his own words that keep prevent him form having a warmer relationship with the club.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That's easy to counter. The Flames were garbage until Iginla turned into an elite forward, and returned to being garbage as he declined.

The Flames were garbage before Darryl Sutter came in and built an actual team. They returned to being garbage when he forgot how to build a team.

I don't think Sutter really even deserves all the credit for building the team either. Many of the players were Button's acquisitions. Sutter deserves more of the coaching accolades than the GM ones, IMO.

Gelinas, Conroy, Yelle, Ference, Donovan, Lydman, Regehr, Iginla, Leopold were all here before Sutter was. Plus, to Button's credit, he hired Sutter as well.

Kiprusoff, Warrener, Niemenen, Simon, and Lowry were good additions as well, but Darryl really didn't "build" the entire team.

[neo45]

Lowry was here before Darryl, no? I think Warrener was too (part of the Drury trade)

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by neo45

Lowry was here before Darryl, no? I think Warrener was too (part of the Drury trade)

You're correct about Lowry, i'm getting old.

Drury was traded before the start of the season for Warrener & Reino, by Darryl.