[Signing] McDavid signs extension: 8 years, 12.5M per.

[Strange Brew]

I do sometimes wish the irrational hate comments were reserved for the Edmonton is no good thread. If you venture in that thread, you know what you're in for. In other threads, its sometimes hard to tell if people are trying to be funny, or expressing an opinion that could be debated.

Although the cap situation makes things more complicated, you always go with the best player IMO. In every pro sports league, the super elite players tend to win championships. This is true in cap leagues too. There are of course exceptions, but your "generational" players have ways of making those around them better too.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I do sometimes wish the irrational hate comments were reserved for the Edmonton is no good thread. If you venture in that thread, you know what you're in for. In other threads, its sometimes hard to tell if people are trying to be funny, or expressing an opinion that could be debated.

Although the cap situation makes things more complicated, you always go with the best player IMO. In every pro sports league, the super elite players tend to win championships. This is true in cap leagues too. There are of course exceptions, but your "generational" players have ways of making those around them better too.

Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA have won 8 recent Stanley Cups.

The amount of "truly elite" talent on those teams when they won indicates that the above post is bang on.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I can get on board with hating the Oilers and their players.

But when posters talk about McDavid's skills etc. their judgement is clearly clouded. He's about to be the league's best player. Posters can acknowledge that and still hate him.

It's hard to take some of these posts seriously when you know that the poster is so jaded he cannot give any kind of objective opinion.

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The hate on this board for McDavid is sometimes embarrassing. I get the hate for Edmonton, but Calgary would kill for a guy like McDavid. To pretend otherwise comes off looking like sour grapes.


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Maybe you should focus on getting your own #### in order. You can't seem to remember what you posted an hour earlier.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I think comparing 1 player vs 2 players is hard.

I would say Would you rather have McDavid and Maroon at $14 million or Monahan and Gaudreau at $13 million? 57 goals and 85 assists in 163 games or 45 goals and 74 assists in 154 games? I don't know if Maroon will be back after this year or if his replacement will put up similar numbers but I am sure you will see value guys rotating in on the top line with McDavid.

Both are solid pairs and great first lines.

If Monahan gets hurt, Gaudreau's production doesn't take a big hit. If McDavid gets hurt, Maroon becomes a 4th liner.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA have won 8 recent Stanley Cups.

The amount of "truly elite" talent on those teams when they won indicates that the above post is bang on.

There is an equally long list of teams with future hall of famers who haven't won a cup. The common denominator between those teams you list has been their ability to bring on players who allow their truly elite players to succeed. Having truely elite players helps, sure. but for 40 minutes a game other players will need to make the difference.

There is no debate about the ability McDavid. Still, the amount of success the Oilers are going to have with McDavid by and large remains to be proven. As such, any speculation about the future success of Edmonton is exactly that speculation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I would say Would you rather have McDavid and Maroon at $14 million or Monahan and Gaudreau at $13 million? 57 goals and 85 assists in 163 games or 45 goals and 74 assists in 154 games? I don't know if Maroon will be back after this year or if his replacement will put up similar numbers but I am sure you will see value guys rotating in on the top line with McDavid.

The problem is that Maroon isn't a first line player. Without McDavid he's a 10 goal guy. Yeah, that's the reality. Basically, Maroon is the backboard that McDavid does his layups against. Without McDavid Maroon is a foot note on the hockey team. The same cannot be said for Gaudreau and Monahan.

Both are solid pairs and great first lines.

Edmonton does not have a solid pair. They have McDavid. You can play him with anyone and he is going to produce. Maroon is window dressing, not a productive first line player.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA have won 8 recent Stanley Cups.

The amount of "truly elite" talent on those teams when they won indicates that the above post is bang on.

Pittsburgh

1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Kessel
4. Letang
   

Chicago

1. Toews
2. Kane
3. Keith
4. Seabrook
5. Hossa

LA

1. Carter
2. Kopitar
3. Doughty
4. Quick

Edmonton
McDavid

This list doesn't even consider the supporting cast on each team. Edmonton's supporting cast is also the weakest of the group by far.

One of these things is not like the other.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by New Era

The problem is that Maroon isn't a first line player. Without McDavid he's a 10 goal guy. Yeah, that's the reality. Basically, Maroon is the backboard that McDavid does his layups against. Without McDavid Maroon is a foot note on the hockey team. The same cannot be said for Gaudreau and Monahan.



Edmonton does not have a solid pair. They have McDavid. You can play him with anyone and he is going to produce. Maroon is window dressing, not a productive first line player.

But that is part of the reason you pay him so much. He makes a 10 goal guy a 27 goal guy. Replace Maroon with most players and he makes them better. But you don't have to pay them a ton for it.

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Is it possible to settle on one lame nickname for McDavid, instead of being subjected to a different lame one for him in every post?

I love it, the more the better. I also like to see the creative names others come up with

[N-E-B]

The most annoying part of this whole thing is the way the media and Oiler fans are treating him as some sort of hero...

Garbage like this from Bob McKenzie:
"McDavid wasn't comfortable with $13.25 and insisted on lowering the number."

They're trying to paint the "McDavid is a saint who cares about winning more than money" picture and the sheep in Edmonton are eating it up.

"I'll play in Edmonton for 8 more years... if you give me $100 million dollars."

Yeah you're a real ####### hero Connor.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

The most annoying part of this whole thing is the way the media and Oiler fans are treating him as some sort of hero...

Garbage like this from Bob McKenzie:
"McDavid wasn't comfortable with $13.25 and insisted on lowering the number."

They're trying to paint the "McDavid is a saint who cares about winning more than money" picture and the sheep in Edmonton are eating it up.

"I'll play in Edmonton for 8 more years... if you give me $100 million dollars."

Yeah you're a real ####### hero Connor.

Its just such an obvious play.

"No, no sir! Thats far too much money! You have to give me less...I demand it!"

Sure you do Robin Hood....sure you do.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

"I'll play in Edmonton for 8 more years... if you give me $100 million dollars."

Yeah you're a real ####### hero Connor.

You're crazy if you think McDavid demanded his salary. His agent probably went to town on the Oilers, McDavid doesn't look like the kind of guy who can stand up for himself assertively. His agent was licking his chops the minute he was drafted.

To add to that, I doubt it was McDavid's idea to say "I don't need that much money". I think his agent said that was a good way to frame it to the people of Edmonton so he doesn't look like a salary cap burden. Then Chia agreed.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Pittsburgh

1. Crosby
2. Malkin
3. Kessel
4. Letang
   

Chicago

1. Toews
2. Kane
3. Keith
4. Seabrook
5. Hossa

LA

1. Carter
2. Kopitar
3. Doughty
4. Quick

Edmonton
McDavid

This list doesn't even consider the supporting cast on each team. Edmonton's supporting cast is also the weakest of the group by far.

One of these things is not like the other.

I agree that elite teams need strong supporting players too. I am not saying that Edmonton fits that definition.

But elite teams need elite players to build around. The more elite players a team has, the weaker the supporting players can be.


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[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You're crazy if you think McDavid demanded his salary. His agent probably went to town on the Oilers, McDavid doesn't look like the kind of guy who can stand up for himself assertively. His agent was licking his chops the minute he was drafted.

To add to that, I doubt it was McDavid's idea to say "I don't need that much money". I think his agent said that was a good way to frame it to the people of Edmonton so he doesn't look like a salary cap burden. Then Chia agreed.

Whether or not he demanded his salary is not the point. The point was that the media is trying to make him look like a saint when in reality he's being paid $100M and makes $2M/year more than anyone else in the NHL. He's not a saint and he sure as hell didn't take a hometown discount. It's nauseating to read.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I agree that elite teams need strong supporting players too. I am not saying that Edmonton fits that definition.

But elite teams need elite players to build around. The more elite players a team has, the weaker the supporting players can be.


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Absolutely false. You win with depth.

LA and Chicago were the epitome of depth. Pittsburgh is the only one that you could try to argue won because of their elite players, but even for them, they had Crosby and Malkin every year but only won when other players like Kessel and Bonino and Guetsel (SP) and Murray and many others stepped up and made huge contributions.

The Oilers are the anti-thesis of depth and are no where near in the same ballpark as these teams.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Absolutely false. You win with depth.

LA and Chicago were the epitome of depth. Pittsburgh is the only one that you could try to argue won because of their elite players, but even for them, they had Crosby and Malkin every year but only won when other players like Kessel and Bonino and Guetsel (SP) and Murray and many others stepped up and made huge contributions.

The Oilers are the anti-thesis of depth and are no where near in the same ballpark as these teams.

You need both.

The Hurricanes are the only team that has won a cup post lockout that didn't have a Norris, Hart, Vezina, or Art Ross calibre player on it.

I'd argue that the elite player/s are more important, because they are the most difficult thing to obtain. Depth is easier to find. That doesn't mean finding a lot of depth is easy. Just easier than acquiring a major trophy contending talent.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I agree that elite teams need strong supporting players too. I am not saying that Edmonton fits that definition.

But elite teams need elite players to build around. The more elite players a team has, the weaker the supporting players can be.


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There's also the question as to which of these players are elite because of their team accomplishments, and which are elite because of their individual accomplishments. Does Patrick Kane do as well on Carolina? Is Quick elite playing behind a team like Arizona?

IMO you can't just point to cup winners and say "look at all those elite players" because results change our perception of players and coaches. Neither McDavid nor Gaudreau and Monahan have a cup, but they're all still young. Individual and team accomplishments will go a long way to how the debate looks in the future.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Weitz

But that is part of the reason you pay him so much. He makes a 10 goal guy a 27 goal guy. Replace Maroon with most players and he makes them better. But you don't have to pay them a ton for it.

Except when that cheap contract is up you have to pay that player like a 27 goal guy. There's the rub of a McDavid and not much else.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

You need both.

The Hurricanes are the only team that has won a cup post lockout that didn't have a Norris, Hart, Vezina, or Art Ross calibre player on it.

I'd argue that the elite player/s are more important, because they are the most difficult thing to obtain. Depth is easier to find. That doesn't mean finding a lot of depth is easy. Just easier than acquiring a major trophy contending talent.

That's because there are about 10 major awards each year, and every competitive team has at least one or two award winners and nominees.

Every good team has some great players. But you can't win 16 playoff games without significant depth, and maybe some unexpected contributions thrown in.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

You need both.

The Hurricanes are the only team that has won a cup post lockout that didn't have a Norris, Hart, Vezina, or Art Ross calibre player on it.

I'd argue that the elite player/s are more important, because they are the most difficult thing to obtain. Depth is easier to find. That doesn't mean finding a lot of depth is easy. Just easier than acquiring a major trophy contending talent.

They got lucky vis-a-vis their opponent.