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Old 05-24-2017, 04:56 PM   #6601
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I see Eberle as a good player who would benefit from a change of scenery. If the salary were a better fit for us right now, I'd take him on. If the Oilers want to retain salary, the Flames should be all over him. He was the player who showed great chemistry with McDavid in the latter's rookie year, and I could see him being a solid fit for the Flames on the right side with 13 and 23.
Recall a while ago people whining about the fact that the Oilers were screwing with overall salary structure out of desperation incompetence?

Its the same thing, if you're not at the tail-end of your career you arent taking many pay cuts.
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:12 PM   #6602
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i think elberbe would be an interesting reclamation project....if you put him in the right room, i think he could turn things around...

but as many have stated, he getting twice as much as he should be getting..the oilers would need to eat around half that contract or take a bad contract coming back... even by sweetening the pot with a draft pick, i just can't see it...term is too long to take on that cap hit unless its a team trying to get to the basement

i don't think anyone would take on a 6 million dollar cap hit for Eberle; reclamation projects don't always work - like yakupov for example...

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Old 05-25-2017, 08:23 AM   #6603
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anton lander signs in the khl.

was he really part of the oilers plans anyways?
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:24 AM   #6604
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anton lander signs in the khl.

was he really part of the oilers plans anyways?
Meh, even though when you watched Oiler broadcasts they hyped him like he was actually something.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:26 AM   #6605
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anton lander signs in the khl.

was he really part of the oilers plans anyways?
But ,But, McDavid factor.....
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Old 05-25-2017, 09:42 AM   #6606
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But ,But, McDavid factor.....
Ya, didn't you hear, Crosby and Malkin have requested a trade to Edmonton and Pittsburgh has agreed to retain their salaries so Edmonton stays under the cap so the dynasty can live once again!

Where is the vomit emoji?

Last edited by Realistic; 05-25-2017 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:51 AM   #6607
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anton lander signs in the khl.

was he really part of the oilers plans anyways?
That's a gutsy move with KHL teams folding and playing sometimes waiting up to 6 months to get paid.
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:58 AM   #6608
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But ,But, McDavid factor.....
It's the new McDavid factor. No money for any other players.

He'll take his chances in a league that's 6 months late on payments.
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:27 AM   #6609
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Meh, even though when you watched Oiler broadcasts they hyped him like he was actually something.
the guy was literally gretzky-tier in the games I watched him play vs Stockton this year. He put up 12 points in the first 4 games games the greasebirds played against the Heat this year, he was unstoppable.

I have no idea why he's been so awful at the NHL level yet so good in the AHL
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:55 AM   #6610
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the guy was literally gretzky-tier in the games I watched him play vs Stockton this year. He put up 12 points in the first 4 games games the greasebirds played against the Heat this year, he was unstoppable.

I have no idea why he's been so awful at the NHL level yet so good in the AHL
I thought the AHL was littered with guys like these. Too good for the AHL, but terrible in the NHL. Some guys just can't translate what they do at all when the game is faster and against better defencemen goalies and defencemen.
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Old 05-25-2017, 12:12 PM   #6611
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I thought the AHL was littered with guys like these. Too good for the AHL, but terrible in the NHL. Some guys just can't translate what they do at all when the game is faster and against better defencemen goalies and defencemen.
You'd figure if you can dominate guys who would be bottom pair caliber in the NHL, you would at least be able to score more than 7 points over your last ~82 games in the NHL. And it isn't even like his fancies are great and he's just unlucky. He's kind of terrible on those metrics as well.

I hope that the Flames can handle Jankowski's development a lot better than the grease handled Lander's. Lander put up 20 points in 38 games in his draft+6 in the NHL, he shouldn't have stagnated like he did.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:30 PM   #6612
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You'd figure if you can dominate guys who would be bottom pair caliber in the NHL, you would at least be able to score more than 7 points over your last ~82 games in the NHL. And it isn't even like his fancies are great and he's just unlucky. He's kind of terrible on those metrics as well.

I hope that the Flames can handle Jankowski's development a lot better than the grease handled Lander's. Lander put up 20 points in 38 games in his draft+6 in the NHL, he shouldn't have stagnated like he did.
I am not disagreeing with you. I just think that some players just can't make quick enough decisions, or aren't strong enough on the puck, or have a large enough weakness that holds them back somehow, or just don't have the IQ to be able to find a role in the NHL.

I mean, why didn't Jason Jaffray make it? He was a fantastic AHL'er and had seasons of PPG or higher.

Jamie Lundmark comes to mind.

Why wasn't Brett Sutter ever able to stick in the NHL? He had good speed, was gritty, grew up around hockey, was incredibly committed as well as I remember he was the 2nd fittest Flame at camp after Iginla.

John Armstrong was widely seen as a "can't miss 4th liner at least", and he fizzled out after just being unable to take that next step.

Ben Walter I thought was a real smart, all-round decent bottom 6 guy. Why did he not end up having much time in the NHL while a much more undersized guy in Byron end up making it?

There is usually some kind of a reason behind it. I thought Lander was actually a decent player for his age, and I also thought that he was going to be a very useful player (and one that would have been aggravating to play against for the Flames). I am inclined to believe that Edmonton just sucks at developing, but there is a long laundry list of guys that seem like they are destined for the NHL and show well at the pro-level. Heck, they even show real well for a stretch at the NHL level too. Then they just kind of fizzle out. I just think that in some cases an injury really derails a player (Kolanos, Wahl or Negrin for instance), a player goes through troubling times personally (addition issues, or just loose their motivation), or just can't seem to find their game with the speed of the NHL, the pressure it gives, or even just the grind of it.

A really good question is where did things go wrong with Yakupov. Though some may argue that he shouldn't have been selected 1st overall, I don't think there is anything to argue with the statement that he should have been selected at least in the top 5 or 7. He showed well for a stretch too. Where did his development go wrong (other than being drafted by Edmonton) and how did it fall apart for him?

It definitely makes things more interesting when you follow prospects and see them go through their highs and lows. It is especially perplexing when you see them do well at the NHL level, and then fade away into the obscurity of the European leagues within a few seasons.

I think in this case, I will assume Lander's career got derailed simply because Edmonton is no good at developing.

Eberle hasn't improved since his first season.
RNH hasn't really improved since his first season either.
Hall improved so well, that he got traded.
Yakupov never improved.
Nurse doesn't look like he is improving.

I am sure there are exceptions (McDavid being one of course, but it is difficult to include a generational player in any form of statistical evidence where it comes to development). It just seems to me that young players go to Edmonton, and they either stagnate right away or just don't improve. Draisaitl is probably the best exception as his development is going well, but given their track record, we will wait and see if it holds out.

Something something Edmonton sucks at drafting and development and sucks at a lot of other stuff too like something something.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:16 PM   #6613
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i'd take Eberle on the Flames (after the expansion draft)

Eberle for Stajan and Lazar.
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:58 PM   #6614
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i'd take Eberle on the Flames (after the expansion draft)

Eberle for Stajan and Lazar.
Strong subtle post
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:42 PM   #6615
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Did anyone catch this Hall interview? Basically admits to the Oilers tanking

"That was frustrating when in the dressing room and the coaches and our game plan is to try and win games, but sometimes the ultimate plan really isn’t to do that at some points, especially early in my career there,” Hall said on Sportsnet 590 The Fan’s Starting Lineup Thursday. “I think that’s hard on a young player. I think the biggest thing for development in young players is seeing how to win games and maybe that could have been done more in Edmonton early on, but I’m not really sure.”
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/t...uild-edmonton/
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Old 05-29-2017, 04:43 PM   #6616
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There has been talk in various threads about what to expect McDavid's second contract to look like. It doesn't really belong in the Trade Rumours thread, so I thought I'd put this here.

I posted these numbers during the season, but now that the season is over, we know how things played out overall...


In NHL history, only three players have ever won the Art Ross Trophy in their second NHL season: Gretzky, Crosby, and McDavid. Gretzky did so in his third pro season, but it was his second in the NHL.

In the Salary Cap era, only four players have won the Art Ross during their Entry-Level Contracts (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid), and only Crosby and McDavid did so before signing their second NHL contracts (Ovechkin signed his second contract mid-season before winning the Art Ross and Malkin signed during the summer between his second and third seasons).



Crosby signed his second contract on July 7, 2007 when the Cap was set at $50.3 million (even though his contract didn't take effect for another season, it was still governed by the value of the Cap on the day it was signed). Crosby's second contract was a 5-year deal which paid $9 million for the first four seasons, and $7.5 million for the final season (which coincided with the 2012-13 lockout year), with an Annual Averaged Value (AAV) of $8.7 million.

The cap hit on Crosby's second contract was 17.30% of the total team cap on the day it was signed (86.48% of the maximum allowed).


Ovechkin signed his second contract on January 10, 2008, under the same $50.3 million cap. Ovechkin's second contract was a 13-year deal which paid $9 million for the first 6 seasons and $10 million for the final 7, with an AAV of $9.54 million.

The cap hit on Ovechkin's second contract was 18.96% of the total team cap on the day it was signed (94.82% of the maximum allowed).


Malkin's second contract was identical to Crosby's but was signed a year later (after Malkin finished second to Ovechkin in the Art Ross race, but a year before he won the Art Ross himself). Malkin signed his contract on July 2, 2008, after the Cap had risen to $56.7 million.

Because the Cap had gone up, Malkin's contract was a lower percentage of the Cap than Crosby's. The cap hit on Malkin's second contract was 15.34% of the total team cap on the day it was signed (76.72% of the maximum allowed).


Statistically, it's hard to compare McDavid's rookie season with the others because he missed almost half the season. However, we can look at their league ranking in Points per Game (among players with at least 20 games played).
  • In their rookie seasons, McDavid finished third overall in points per game; Ovechkin was fifth; Crosby was sixth; and Malkin was nineteenth.
  • In their second seasons, McDavid and Crosby were both first overall in points per game; Ovechkin was sixteenth; and Malkin was third (behind Ovechkin and Crosby).
  • Over their first two seasons combined, McDavid's points per game was second overall behind Kane; Crosby was second overall behind Thornton; Ovechkin was seventh overall; and Malkin was ninth overall.


McDavid and Crosby's performances match up very well through two seasons. You could argue that McDavid had an even better first two seasons than Crosby relative to the rest of the league.

People bring up Crosby's 8.7 deal that matches his number and speculate that McDavid may take a similar deal for 9.7. The thing with that is that 8.7 worked out nicely for Crosby. It was a fair number relative to the cap of the day. He may have left a little money on the table, but not a lot.

If the Cap rises to $76 million next year ($15.2 million single player max), expecting McDavid to take less than $10 million would be asking him to take a discount in excess of 35% (Crosby's cap hit was less than 15% from the max).

  • If the cap remains at $73 million next season, to match Crosby's second contract, McDavid would need to sign for an AAV of $12.63M. To match Ovechkin's, it would need to be $13.84M.

  • If the cap goes up to $76 million (as has been rumoured), McDavid would need to be signed for an AAV of $13.15M to match Crosby or $14.41M to match Ovechkin.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:12 PM   #6617
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The only difference is when Crosby signed his contract the cap was expected to continue to rise. Not the case anymore and talk of cap coming down.

Not saying McDavid is going to take a discount or anything but it's really difficult to discuss contracts dollar for dollar.

McDavid will get what he wants essentially.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:22 PM   #6618
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I think in this case, I will assume Lander's career got derailed simply because Edmonton is no good at developing.

Eberle hasn't improved since his first season.
RNH hasn't really improved since his first season either.
Hall improved so well, that he got traded.
Yakupov never improved.
Nurse doesn't look like he is improving.
Don't forget 2x all-star, Masterton winner, and likely Vezina candidate Devan Dubnyk.
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Old 05-29-2017, 05:53 PM   #6619
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You'd figure if you can dominate guys who would be bottom pair caliber in the NHL, you would at least be able to score more than 7 points over your last ~82 games in the NHL. And it isn't even like his fancies are great and he's just unlucky. He's kind of terrible on those metrics as well.

I hope that the Flames can handle Jankowski's development a lot better than the grease handled Lander's. Lander put up 20 points in 38 games in his draft+6 in the NHL, he shouldn't have stagnated like he did.
I always found it odd too. I guess it would be easier for scouts though if there was a direct translation. Sometimes NHLe is a good equation, but not always.

Just like some guys are only 15-20 goal and 40 point players in the NHL, but then can play in the NHL and get the same production. One would think if they can do that in the NHL, they would be even better in the AHL (or KHL for that matter).
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Old 05-29-2017, 06:10 PM   #6620
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I've said with McDavid that he'll walk in looking for either a minimum of 14 million for a long term deal or 12 million for a bridge deal that takes him to UFA.

The Oilers will probably try for a long term 11 million deal or a 10 million dollar bridge deal to UFA and they'll end up splitting the difference at either 12.5 for a long term or 11 million for a bridge deal.

I also expect with players like Mathews in the league that the NHLPA will push for McDavid's deal to be the litmus test for max salaries especially with the problems between the PA and the league.
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