Potential Power of Season Ticket Holders to Keep Flames in Calgary Long-Term?

[Flamenspiel]

What i am trying to say is that, yes i concede that ideally it could be better, but that in many cases new stadiums are not an improvement.

There are plenty of examples, for one when the Skydome was built, they actually shrunk the seat width of the good seats behind home plate. The new bathrooms in Edmonton are another example, the point is that its very tempting to apply cost saving fixes like using airline seating and shrink the size of seats and rows in new buildings.

MSG is not a good example, its not new, it was just very well built originally. The idea is not to get something new, its to get something built properly. Until i see it, i just can't take for granted that a new building will be better.

[shotinthebacklund]

-not dying in a fire if it was to occur due to sever concourse congestion is important too

I jest but concourse congestion due to layout is attrocious

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

-not dying in a fire if it was to occur due to sever concourse congestion is important too

I jest but concourse congestion due to layout is attrocious

If concourse congestion was the biggest issue, they could take out the trucks from the concourse.

In the same vein, if they wanted more bathrooms they could do additions onto the side of the concourse. But it turns out that would be an expense with no revenue.

The Flames want a new building for money, and they want the public to pay for it for the same reason. I'm a STH and I think public money shouldn't be used, although I'd be fine with the city backing a ticket tax, as I perceive the risk as low.

[Teroy]

I know there is a difference between being there or just watching on TV but we've been Flames fans from day one. We had seasons tickets till 1993. Once we moved to B.C. we continued to cheer for them. We have the Centre Ice Package and watch every game. If they move (I doubt they will) we'll still watch every game regardless of what they're named.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by JohnnyTitan

Ya, I agree. We'll get a new team via expansion or relocation as soon as we build a nice new arena! Lol. See 'Winnipeg'

But why go through 15 years with no team?

I'm confident everyone will figure it out.

Yeah, Calgary will certainly get a new team once the major condition of a new building is met, and the only way at that point that there will be a new building is if its 100% paid for by the municipality/taxpayers.

No owner will move a new team or a relocated team here without a new building, the NHL wouldn't approve it.


The Flames leave, that's it for NHL hockey in this city.

Also its not like people are lining up to buy CFL teams, so the Stamps would probably die as well.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by heep223

4) Not having to pee your pants
5) Being able to buy a beer without missing playing time
6) Going for dinner before the game somewhere closer than a 30 minute walk from the arena

For real, this is some silver spoon, Paris-Hilton and princessy #### right here. Dropping hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars into superficial things like this ever 30-40 years is just out of touch. So what, 40 years from now this current arena won't have integrated Android sensors that connect to your cloud ID and nearby segway charging stations so you're going to drop 6 billion on the next arena and just repeat the cycle?

Like so what, you have to wait a little to pee? You're at a bloody $400 hockey game? That's some 1st world whining right there. And your generation is full of it.

[Buck Murdock]

Why is Nenshi so tight with the tax dollars when it comes to the Flames, but spends like a drunken sailor in every other area?

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

Why is Nenshi so tight with the tax dollars when it comes to the Flames, but spends like a drunken sailor in every other area?

The old spendshi builds libraries and bike lanes but not subsidize a very successful private enterprise argument

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by stone hands

The old spendshi builds libraries and bike lanes but not subsidize a very successful private enterprise argument

There's a big difference between public services and private enterprises. I suppose filling potholes is stupid spending but giving Canadian Tires a few million isn't? It's not like Murray Edwards is hurting. The guy is as a BILLIONAIRE, afterall.

Seriously I have no problem with the city just buying it whole for 400 million and just leasing it to the Flames and any other tenants. But giving away hundreds of millions for a private firm is a not just a subsidy, thats a bloody hand out

[CaptainCrunch]

I would be fine if the city zoned the land, the Flames built the rink and ran it and got 100% of every dollar that came from the building.

No ticket taxes or any other kind of taxers beyond the normal corporate taxes.

If the city wants any share of concessions or parking or anything like that then they can put some money into it as investors.

However I don't blame the Flames ownership for wanting a deal like the Oilers got.

At the end of the day if the city decides not to invest into a new building, then I wouldn't blame the Flames for packing up and leaving at some point down the road.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

For real, this is some silver spoon, Paris-Hilton and princessy #### right here. Dropping hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars into superficial things like this ever 30-40 years is just out of touch. So what, 40 years from now this current arena won't have integrated Android sensors that connect to your cloud ID and nearby segway charging stations so you're going to drop 6 billion on the next arena and just repeat the cycle?



Like so what, you have to wait a little to pee? You're at a bloody $400 hockey game? That's some 1st world whining right there. And your generation is full of it.

I never said I support public dollars in any of my posts. Just that a new rink has tangible benefits to ticket holders, in my opinion.

Unclench your bum

[14]

I 100% support my tax dollars being used to fund the new project (event centre) and I trust the officials I elected to make the right decision on the allocation of those dollars. To be a world class city you need to have world class facilities. I want to live in a world class city and I want to live here in Calgary.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by 14

I 100% support my tax dollars being used to fund the new project (event centre) and I trust the officials I elected to make the right decision on the allocation of those dollars. To be a world class city you need to have world class facilities. I want to live in a world class city and I want to live here in Calgary.

Here we go with the 'World Class' argument again...

What does a World Class event centre even mean? There is more to being a World Class city than just having a nice hockey arena.

If you want to live in a World Class city you should pull a Murray Edwards and move to London.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I would be fine if the city zoned the land, the Flames built the rink and ran it and got 100% of every dollar that came from the building.

No ticket taxes or any other kind of taxers beyond the normal corporate taxes.

If the city wants any share of concessions or parking or anything like that then they can put some money into it as investors.

However I don't blame the Flames ownership for wanting a deal like the Oilers got.

At the end of the day if the city decides not to invest into a new building, then I wouldn't blame the Flames for packing up and leaving at some point down the road.

If the Flames and Stampeders leave that will leave a gap of literally NO pro sports team in a city / metro of 1.3-1.5MM people with a pretty decent level of disposable income.

Expect that gap to get closed quickly, and I doubt taxpayers will have to bend over to do it.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Here we go with the 'World Class' argument again...

What does a World Class event centre even mean? There is more to being a World Class city than just having a nice hockey arena.

If you want to live in a World Class city you should pull a Murray Edwards and move to London.

Not only that, but Edwards makes his money in this province, province asks for more money so he literally changes principle residence to another country for tax avoidance, and then he comes calling on the public / taxes to pay for his arena...

oh yeah and he's a billionaire. The whole thing is absurd.

If we as a city are getting into the habit of giving private businesses capital for start-up, why aren't we giving it to the people that need it? Guess what? Billionaires don't need it... I feel like that's a safe threshold to say as a society. "Oh? You have 1,000 $1MM?! Yeah. We've decided you're good, thanks."

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Not only that, but Edwards makes his money in this province, province asks for more money so he literally changes principle residence to another country for tax avoidance, and then he comes calling on the public / taxes to pay for his arena...



oh yeah and he's a billionaire. The whole thing is absurd.



If we as a city are getting into the habit of giving private businesses capital for start-up, why aren't we giving it to the people that need it? Guess what? Billionaires don't need it... I feel like that's a safe threshold to say as a society. "Oh? You have 1,000 $1MM?! Yeah. We've decided you're good, thanks."

The problem is that financial and human capital are both mobile around the globe. We don't want said financial capital and talent leaving the city/province because of a real or perceived anti-business environment relative to other areas of the world. The reality is that we want a balance somewhere in between IMO.

[Mr.Coffee]

No doubt, I agree.

But I also think it's ridiculous he set up a permanent residence in another country to avoid the taxes, and then turn around and ask for a handout from that same group you're avoiding to pay into when you're one of the richest men in Canada (not just Alberta... Canada). It's actually sort of vomit-inducing when you think about it, there's a certain grotesqueness and greed there.

Those two things can be mutually exclusive.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

Why is Nenshi so tight with the tax dollars when it comes to the Flames, but spends like a drunken sailor in every other area?

Why do people have trouble understanding that the mayor has one vote out of 15 on City Council? He can't push through his own insane agenda, nor could he prevent the rest of Council pushing through something that he alone disagreed with.

Does anyone here think that if Council were to vote on giving funding to CalgaryNext as proposed by CSEC that it would receive a single yes vote, let alone the 8+ required to pass?

[RM14]

Season ticket holders do not have power. Just a seat they paid for.

[Northendzone]

^ the only time STH have power is when they choose not to renew.

it will be interesting to see what is announced over the next couple of weeks, public reaction, timelines etc.

I refuse to believe that a group of guys who made their money here in Calgary and alberta (despite the fact they may have moved for tax reasons) would move or sell the team to a group that would want to move it.