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Old 08-09-2014, 07:59 AM   #21
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Article on the rumors of the Western ECHL teams being moved up to the AHL to finally give the AHL a proper Western conference:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...medium=twitter

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Which is why, beginning in 2015-16, the NHL and the AHL will be initiating a major plan to address this issue. If all goes well, Abbotsford will be the last victim of the American Hockey League's weak presence in the West.

The AHL is working on an initiative to introduce several more teams out West as early as 2015-16, something that Mayor's Manor began reporting back in April. At that time, as many as six NHL clubs were rumoured to be part of an affiliate migration that would help to establish a proper Western Conference in the AHL. Now, it could be closer to 10 teams moving their prospects to markets closer to their own backyards.

The California teams are reportedly on board, and while the Flames and Canucks have committed to the New York markets for the time being, the Edmonton Oilers are believed to be part of the plan as well.

The question becomes: Where will the AHL be getting these teams?

According to sources, from the ECHL.

With three NHL teams in California, having a trio of AHL teams in the state would be ideal, and wouldn't you know it, California already has three minor professional hockey teams: the ECHL's Bakersfield Condors, Stockton Thunder, and Ontario Reign.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:13 AM   #22
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Yeah, the NHL teams are going to need to buy the ECHL franchises in order to move in, as I think some of these franchises are quite valuable just as they are. The present owners have no need to move up to the AHL. They draw good crowds, have low payrolls and can be run with little interference.
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Old 08-09-2014, 12:04 PM   #23
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^ don't forget there is likely going to be a lot cash spent to buyout lease and partnership agreements in the AHL when these NHL teams decide to move out west.


From a pure geographical stand point, an AHL division of Stockton, Bakersfield, Ontario, Las Vegas, and Utah makes a lot of sense.

all are easily busable (i.e. cheap) and the longest leg of Utah to Stockton is about a 10 hour drive. Should be real easy for visiting teams to schedule road trips and travel. all are relatively close to major airports
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Old 08-09-2014, 02:32 PM   #24
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^ don't forget there is likely going to be a lot cash spent to buyout lease and partnership agreements in the AHL when these NHL teams decide to move out west.


From a pure geographical stand point, an AHL division of Stockton, Bakersfield, Ontario, Las Vegas, and Utah makes a lot of sense.

all are easily busable (i.e. cheap) and the longest leg of Utah to Stockton is about a 10 hour drive. Should be real easy for visiting teams to schedule road trips and travel. all are relatively close to major airports
There are so many options for a West Conference, or the re-emergence of the IHL. Truth be told I prefer the IHL idea. Have a 12 team league and allow a few independant clubs.

Abbotsford (Canucks)
Salt Lake City (Flames/Independent)
Boise (Flames/Independent)
Bakersfield (Oilers)
Ontario (Kings)
Stockton (Sharks)
San Diego (Ducks/Independent)
Las Vegas (Ducks/Independent)
Prescott Valley (Coyotes)
Denver/Loveland (Avalanche)
Cedar Park (Stars)
San Antonio (Independent)
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Old 08-09-2014, 05:06 PM   #25
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If were randomly assigning affiliates, can I put a word in for Vegas, I would be far more likely to catch a game in Vegas than to try and find an excuse to visit Salt Lake City
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:22 PM   #26
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If were randomly assigning affiliates, can I put a word in for Vegas, I would be far more likely to catch a game in Vegas than to try and find an excuse to visit Salt Lake City
it was hardly random. it is either the closest city or one that the NHL team owns
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Old 08-09-2014, 08:45 PM   #27
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Current teams by state

Canada:
-Brampton (CHL) [Ontario]
-Hamilton (AHL) [Ontario]
-St. John's (AHL) [Newfoundland]
-Toronto (AHL) [Ontario]

Alaska:
-Anchorage (ECHL)
Arizona:
-Prescott Valley (CHL)
California:
-Bakersfield (ECHL)
-Ontario (ECHL)
-Stockton (ECHL)
Colorado:
-Denver (CHL)
-Loveland (ECHL)
Connecticut:
-Bridgeport (AHL)
-Hartford (AHL)
Florida:
-Estero (ECHL)
-Orlando (ECHL)
Georgia:
-Gwinnett (ECHL)
Idaho:
-Boise (ECHL)
Illinois:
-Moline (CHL)
-Rockford (AHL)
-Rosemont (AHL)
Indiana:
-Evansville (ECHL)
-Fort Wayne (ECHL)
-Indianapolis (ECHL)
Iowa:
-Des Moines (AHL)
Kansas:
-Wichita (CHL)
Maine:
-Portland (AHL)
Mass.:
-Springfield (AHL)
-Worcester (AHL)
Michigan:
-Grand Rapids (AHL)
-Kalamazoo (ECHL)
Missouri:
-Independence (CHL)
New Hampshire:
-Manchester (AHL)
New York:
-Albany (AHL)
-Binghamton (AHL)
-Elmira (ECHL)
-Glens Falls (AHL)
-Rochester (AHL)
-Syracuse (AHL)
-Utica (AHL)
North Carolina:
-Charlotte (AHL)
Ohio:
-Cincinnati (ECHL)
-Cleveland (AHL)
-Toledo (ECHL)
Oklahoma:
-Oklahoma City (AHL)
-Tulsa (CHL)
Pennsylvania:
-Allentown (AHL)
-Hershey (AHL)
-Reading (ECHL)
-Wilkes-Barre/Scranton (AHL)
Rhode Island:
-Providence (AHL)
South Carolina:
-Greenville (ECHL)
-North Charleston (ECHL)
South Dakota:
-Rapid City (CHL)
Texas:
-Allen (CHL)
-Cedar Park (AHL)
-San Antonio (AHL)
Utah:
-West Valley City (ECHL)
Virginia:
-Norfolk (AHL)
West Virginia:
-Wheeling (ECHL)
Wisconsin:
-Milwaukee (AHL)
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:39 PM   #28
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There are so many options for a West Conference, or the re-emergence of the IHL. Truth be told I prefer the IHL idea. Have a 12 team league and allow a few independant clubs.
Not sure if I like the idea of independent teams.

IMO the NHL affiliated teams would ice superior teams, and the independent teams will be struggling to find talent to fill out a 23 man roster without NHL support.

Ideally you would want as much parity as possible in a development league, otherwise there isn't much development.
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:41 PM   #29
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Not sure if I like the idea of independent teams.

IMO the NHL affiliated teams would ice superior teams, and the independent teams will be struggling to find talent to fill out a 23 man roster without NHL support.

Ideally you would want as much parity as possible in a development league, otherwise there isn't much development.
I don't know about that. Wouldn't the independent teams be able to sign all the good non-NHL caliber veterans and avoid having to play younger players for purely developmental reasons. I would think the richer independent teams could be quite strong.

Didn't the IHL have independent teams before? How did they compare the the NHL farm teams?
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Not sure if I like the idea of independent teams.

IMO the NHL affiliated teams would ice superior teams, and the independent teams will be struggling to find talent to fill out a 23 man roster without NHL support.

Ideally you would want as much parity as possible in a development league, otherwise there isn't much development.
I disagree completely, I think it will be easier for them to draw veteran AHL level players because they will have to share less ice-time with prospects. They would also be the go to teams for NHL teams to loan players too that aren't getting enough ice time in the AHL (or IHL if it were brought back) but franchises do not want in the ECHL.

And if history says anything independent clubs will possibly be the class of the league as the independent teams in the IHL were quite successful. In fact 5 of the final 6 Turner Cup championship teams were independent clubs.
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:39 AM   #31
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Unless the league changes the veteran rule, I still think the independent team is going to have a hard time to fill up a roster that could compete with an NHL affiliate:

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In the AHL, player development is a top priority. The American Hockey League and the Professional Hockey Players' Association have the following development rule in place:

Of the 18 skaters (not counting two goaltenders) that teams may dress for a game, at least 13 must be qualified as "development players." Of those 13, 12 must have played in 260 or fewer professional games (including AHL, NHL and European elite leagues), and one must have played in 320 or fewer professional games. All calculations for development status are based on regular-season totals as of the start of the season.
That off the bat limits how many veterans a team can sign/dress. Independent teams will be left signing overage major juniors and college free agents that NHL didn't want (and perhaps once in a while a Euro but very unlikely without an NHL contract).

NHL teams rarely loan their prospects to other teams. Flames have only done it twice that I can recall.

Last edited by sureLoss; 08-10-2014 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:18 AM   #32
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I think back in the day when there were independent teams there weren't as many options for veteran players. The KHL and other Euro leagues have become a good paying option for past there prime NHL vets and other tweeners. Independent teams may have a problem icing competitive teams and if they can, it will lower the leagues competitive level.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:37 PM   #33
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Sucks the most profitable team in minor league hockey is in no bodies vision of the future.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:53 PM   #34
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Sucks the most profitable team in minor league hockey is in no bodies vision of the future.
Is that St. John's or Alaska?
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:13 PM   #35
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Unless the league changes the veteran rule, I still think the independent team is going to have a hard time to fill up a roster that could compete with an NHL affiliate:



That off the bat limits how many veterans a team can sign/dress. Independent teams will be left signing overage major juniors and college free agents that NHL didn't want (and perhaps once in a while a Euro but very unlikely without an NHL contract).

NHL teams rarely loan their prospects to other teams. Flames have only done it twice that I can recall.
Except if there is independent teams it would be a new league so they could suit the rules on that to what they would like. And even then I don't think it would be hard for the independent teams to fill up with the Acolatse's and Breen's of the world who are vets but still considered development players.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:55 PM   #36
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As a flames fan from Abbotsford, I really hope this doesn't happen right aways. Having the baby flames here was an absolute dream come true for the last five years, but I knew it couldn't last. I know the best thing for the city would be to get a successful AHL franchise, but I can't stand the thought of my beloved Abbotsford being known for being the home to Vancouver's farm team(plus it would mean I would never go to games). My hope is we get a WHL tenant in before that can happen.
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Old 08-23-2014, 06:17 PM   #37
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http://www.howlings.net/2014/08/21/c...est-was-built/


Article says the Avalanche and Coyotes have recently bought AHL teams. The Ducks are the last team needing to buy an AHL franchise.

6 teams for the AHL west divison is
LA -> Ontario, Cali
San Jose -> Fresno, Cali
Colorado -> Denver, Colo
Phoenix -> Prescott Valley, Az
Anaheim -> San Diego, Cali
Winnipeg -> Thunder Bay (doesn't really seem to make sense, in terms of being part of this division)

Article also says that the Oilers, Canucks, and Flames are expected to move their franchises out West in the next 2 years

Last edited by sureLoss; 08-23-2014 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-23-2014, 08:21 PM   #38
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http://www.howlings.net/2014/08/21/c...est-was-built/


Article says the Avalanche and Coyotes have recently bought AHL teams. The Ducks are the last team needing to buy an AHL franchise.

6 teams for the AHL west divison is
LA -> Ontario, Cali
San Jose -> Fresno, Cali
Colorado -> Denver, Colo
Phoenix -> Prescott Valley, Az
Anaheim -> San Diego, Cali
Winnipeg -> Thunder Bay (doesn't really seem to make sense, in terms of being part of this division)

Article also says that the Oilers, Canucks, and Flames are expected to move their franchises out West in the next 2 years
Woohoo!!!
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:42 PM   #39
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Article also says that the Oilers, Canucks, and Flames are expected to move their franchises out West in the next 2 years
I could see the Oilers moving from Oklahoma City and perhaps the Canucks moving from Utica to Abbotsford and giving it another go, but I don't know if Calgary is going to be interested in moving affiliates 3 times in 5 years (or 5 times in the last 10 years). They have gotten themselves into a sweet spot in the AHL where the travel and schedule are a benefit to them, and before stepping on the ice have huge crowd support. Adirondack is a long time hockey and AHL city and unless the bottom falls out in the next year or so and they lose the support, I really can't see them moving again. I think it would be a poor management decision to move them if they are doing well.

Oilers, I think moving from Oklahoma is a no-brainer. It's Oklahoma, it's not a hockey town. They use so many gimmicks at games and giveaways just to get people in the door. I know they do have some passionate fans, but I don't think it makes sense to have an AHL team there. Canucks, I think if the opportunity to go to Abbotsford (or something similarly close) comes up, they are all over it instantly. They wanted Abbotsford so bad when Calgary was there, so I could see them going to a West Coast affiliate that's close to the Canucks.
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Old 08-24-2014, 12:50 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sureLoss View Post
http://www.howlings.net/2014/08/21/c...est-was-built/


Article says the Avalanche and Coyotes have recently bought AHL teams. The Ducks are the last team needing to buy an AHL franchise.

6 teams for the AHL west divison is
LA -> Ontario, Cali
San Jose -> Fresno, Cali
Colorado -> Denver, Colo
Phoenix -> Prescott Valley, Az
Anaheim -> San Diego, Cali
Winnipeg -> Thunder Bay (doesn't really seem to make sense, in terms of being part of this division)

Article also says that the Oilers, Canucks, and Flames are expected to move their franchises out West in the next 2 years
I think Thunder Bay being part of that division is pure speculation which leads me to wonder how much else in that article is also speculation.

(a) Thunder Bay is in the Eastern Time Zone and very far from California. Putting them in this division makes absolutely no sense, especially with teams much much closer in the AHL like OKC, Austin, San Antonio. Heck, off the top of my head I can name 9 existing AHL teams closer than Thunder Bay (San Antonio, Texas, OKC, Chicago, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, Rochester, Cleveland, Iowa).

(b) The Thunder Bay relocation is dependent on them getting a new arena and that's currently going nowhere.

(c) Assuming it would be a very unbalanced schedule, how does Winnipeg benefit from having the majority of its farm team's road games out on the coast in California? It's extra ridiculous when you consider that Winnipeg is in the Central Division and it would be much better to have a Winnipeg AHL affiliate in a division a 90-minute flight away with the likes of Grand Rapids, Milwaukee, Chicago, etc.

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