Idiots want to build gondola, conference centre and casino in Canmore

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The area is full of easy two hour hikes for super hero's. I wouldn't mind seeing something for less than granola fueled, my boots are more worn out than your boots, types. If the bears are fine with the current development in the area I don't think ten Gondola towers are going to matter that much. However it looks like they need the casino to get the financing to build the rest of the development so I don't see it happening and for that reason I'm out.

Grass lakes is a wonderful hike right in town. Heart Creek is right there as well. A half hour down the road is Chester, Brustall and Rummel lakes. The Nordic centre is filled with nice trails. The Peter Lougheed park has Rawson lake, upper lakes, canyon, Mount Everest exhibition trial, paved bikes paths etc. Banff has a real mountain you can climb when you are a two year old. The area does not lack the Families with small kids or bus tourist hikes.

the problem from a bear point of view is addition disturbance along the east to east. You create another layer of physical development between their North South travel. Adding cut lines to build the towers will also increase predators like cougars and wolves access to prey which dependin on how you view the elk and deer population could be a good thing.

The biggest issue is during construction you will completely cut off the Noeth South bear access on the east side of the highway pushing more bears towards the train tracks as their corridor.

[OMG!WTF!]

Yeah, we have much different opinions of access. All of those "girly" hikes you've mentioned might as well be k2 for people who can't make it up a flight of stairs. I'd rather see Lady Mac get developed as somewhere even more delicate and out of the way. I also know you can find a wildlife expert for anything you want to protect which is both good and bad as it really makes people question the validity of these claims.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Peanut

I think the Stoney Nakoda casino is so beautiful. True gem of kananaskis scenery and activity. Can't imagine why Canmore wouldn't want a casino of their very own to both beautify the area and offer an activity in a town that is clearly short on recreation and leisure options.

Can't tell if serious ...

But if you are, it has to be one of the most hideous buildings in Western Canada. Complete eyesore to the gate of the Rockies as you're going down TC1. So much wasted potential for an architecture delight in a spot like that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Yeah, we have much different opinions of access. All of those "girly" hikes you've mentioned might as well be k2 for people who can't make it up a flight of stairs. I'd rather see Lady Mac get developed as somewhere even more delicate and out of the way. I also know you can find a wildlife expert for anything you want to protect which is both good and bad as it really makes people question the validity of these claims.

Why are you being so insulting to easy hikes. They are a great way for people to see real wilderness. And for the limited number of people who can't climb a flight of stairs that go to the mountains we already have plenty of options.

Chopper ride to berg lake. Chopper ride to mount Assiniboine, Sulfur mountain gondola, norquay, lake Louise kicking horse gondola. Lake Ohara and sunshine bus, Shadow lake horse packing and others.

The target here isn't poeple who don't have mobility either so your argument doesn't have much validity there.

The issue isn't so much the animal impact. It's the animal impact relative to the benefit. The economic impact of this conference centre is not worth the disturbance. This isn't a pipeline that increases the selling price of oil bringing in billions and therefore worth the impact.

[InglewoodFan]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Hopefully it never happens. Talk about ruining the town. Oh and get rid of the exshaw plant too. Who approved that in the most used tourist corridor in canada.

The cement plant has been in Exshaw in one form or another since 1906. I would hazard that a big portion of the concrete built structures of Calgary were made with Exshaw cement. The limestone deposit is there, and the railway is there. It was a good place to put a cement plant.

Hopefully it doesn't offend your sensibilities too much to know that Canmore was a coal mining town at around the same time.

[Hack&Lube]

I thought the teahouse was slated to be torn down years ago???

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Can't tell if serious ...

But if you are, it has to be one of the most hideous buildings in Western Canada. Complete eyesore to the gate of the Rockies as you're going down TC1. So much wasted potential for an architecture delight in a spot like that.

Peanut's post was definitely dripping with sarcasm.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why are you being so insulting to easy hikes. They are a great way for people to see real wilderness. And for the limited number of people who can't climb a flight of stairs that go to the mountains we already have plenty of options.

Chopper ride to berg lake. Chopper ride to mount Assiniboine, Sulfur mountain gondola, norquay, lake Louise kicking horse gondola. Lake Ohara and sunshine bus, Shadow lake horse packing and others.

The target here isn't poeple who don't have mobility either so your argument doesn't have much validity there.

The issue isn't so much the animal impact. It's the animal impact relative to the benefit. The economic impact of this conference centre is not worth the disturbance. This isn't a pipeline that increases the selling price of oil bringing in billions and therefore worth the impact.

I definitely wasn't insulting easy hikes. You were implying that people with limited access could do these (in your opinion) easy hikes. Now you're naming off things for people with limited mobility to do that cost thousands and still have access issues and still don't get you up into the mountain tops.

You've named two or three options for people that want to get up in the mountains in the Banff/Canmore area. Sulphur and Norquay. Helicopters are minimum $200 a person for a twenty minute flight. Lake O'Hara is accessible for a couple months by bus but still has challenges when you get there. Shadow is $300 a night and you're not taking a horse there. They pack supplies in on horses not people. You can drive to Engadine for the day but it's not like being on top of a peak with a view that few people get. I think it's a neat plan for a place that's already developed. I'm fine with it getting canned though too. I'm just not taking any amateur's analysis of wildlife in the area as a definitive statement on sustainability or angry Canmore resident Tracey Henderson's opinion that no one wants this.

[troutman]

I'm all for whatever keeps people away from trout streams.

[Buff]

Don't stop with one casino. Build 20 casinos. All attached to mega resorts. Then we don't have to go so far to get to Vegas, we can bring Vegas to us... and with better views!

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Buff

Don't stop with one casino. Build 20 casinos. All attached to mega resorts. Then we don't have to go so far to get to Vegas, we can bring Vegas to us... and with better views!

And make sure all the casinos are connected to each other with one underground vault.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If you want to take a gondola up a mountain there are plenty of options. Lake Louise, Sunshine, Norquay and Sulphur Mountain, all within an hour. At least Sunshine and Lake Louise have some hiking opportunities at the top, Lady Mac has one dangerous trail to the top. Can you imagine the number of stories of idiots falling to their deaths once this is built? Right now it is a big day to get to the top, this will make it an easy jaunt to the dangerous section.

For those who don't know, here is a good shot of the top. You can see the helipad below, which is where the top of the gondola would be. Now imagine 50 idiots pushing their way around with a selfi-stick up here.

Spoiler!

Ooooh....that could be an attraction in and of itself!

They could charge admission to push an off-balance selfie-taker!

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

And make sure all the casinos are connected to each other with one underground vault.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

The cement plant has been in Exshaw in one form or another since 1906. I would hazard that a big portion of the concrete built structures of Calgary were made with Exshaw cement. The limestone deposit is there, and the railway is there. It was a good place to put a cement plant.

Hopefully it doesn't offend your sensibilities too much to know that Canmore was a coal mining town at around the same time.

Thanks, was going to post this.

[Enoch Root]

Man, some people just like to complain I guess.

Heaven forbid people want to build things and create jobs and things to do. You can't build in Banff, which is precisely why Cnanmore has been among the fastest growing towns in Canada for years.

Also, to the argument that the town is at capacity in the summer already: it's a safe bet that a large convention centre and a casino would also generate the construction of multiple hotels.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I definitely wasn't insulting easy hikes. You were implying that people with limited access could do these (in your opinion) easy hikes. Now you're naming off things for people with limited mobility to do that cost thousands and still have access issues and still don't get you up into the mountain tops.

You've named two or three options for people that want to get up in the mountains in the Banff/Canmore area. Sulphur and Norquay. Helicopters are minimum $200 a person for a twenty minute flight. Lake O'Hara is accessible for a couple months by bus but still has challenges when you get there. Shadow is $300 a night and you're not taking a horse there. They pack supplies in on horses not people. You can drive to Engadine for the day but it's not like being on top of a peak with a view that few people get. I think it's a neat plan for a place that's already developed. I'm fine with it getting canned though too. I'm just not taking any amateur's analysis of wildlife in the area as a definitive statement on sustainability or angry Canmore resident Tracey Henderson's opinion that no one wants this.

You insulted the hikes and women by calling the girly.

What you are arguing is that people who can afford the trip to Canmore and for some reason can't use all of the other already impacted options can afford the $40 for a Gondola ticket but not the $220 to spend the day at lake Magog. The number of people you are representing now by this argument is vanishingly small.

I'm okay with you not taking amateurs analysis on animal impacts, that's a reasonable position to take. But your it's great because it provides access argument is certainly not a compelling case given the alternatives available for people of wide ranging abilities and the other near by option that provides the exact same experience.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GGG

You insulted the hikes and women by calling the girly. And as a parent with girls who can likely hike you into the ground I propose we call them 'omgwtf' hikes.

What you are arguing is that people who can afford the trip to Canmore and for dome reason can't die all of the other already impacted options can afford the $40 for a Gondola ticket but not the $220 to spend the day at lake Magog. The number of people you are representing now by this argument is vanishingly small.

I'm okay with you not taking amateurs analysis on animal impacts, that's a reasonable position to take. But your it's great because it provides access argument is certainly not a compelling case given the alternatives available for people of wide ranging abilities and the other near by option that provides the exact same experience.

Ok. So you missed my sarcasm. No big deal. You suggested the Lady Mac tea hut is an easy two hours stroll. Nevermind. But you've given me two things for mobility challenged people to do that creates the experience of a hike and climb that everyone else can do for free. And Sulphur Mountain isn't near by. It's a $20 entry fee and another 45 minutes. Same with Norquay. That's not much this side of Canmore. And you are beyond ignorant if you think $27 to ride a gondola is no different than $200+ for a chopper ride...much closer to $500 if you want to go somewhere good and land for a while. That's idiotic. Compared to what you and your well abled kids get to do for free it's a big deal.

[polak]

If it's something built in the style of the Banff Centre, then I think it'd be pretty cool. Banff Center was awesome when I had a work thing there for a few days in the fall.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Canmore is also at or near full capacity in the summer. It doesn't need a casino to attract people. It sure as #### doesn't need one of Canada's biggest conference centres. The staff alone would add 5% to Canmore's population. Oh, and you sound like Sheila Copps, just for the record...

The point with Canmore is you can keep building because it isn't in a national park. People are going to be coming anyway. I'd rather attract them away from Banff/Lake Louise and into Canmore. If you need more houses, hotels, camping spots, just build them to accommodate the demand. It's much easier there than in the Park.

Who gives a fata if I share one or more opinions with Sheila Copps? Has she even weighed in on this? I don't follow her career enough to know what I'm supposed to take away from that comment.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

The problem is, there isn't a lot of room for development in Canmore. It can only handle so many people(and less, now that they've built ####ing golf courses everywhere). Wildlife have been squeezed out as well. one of the arguments they used to make for a golf course is it doesn't have a lot of people on it, so wildlife aren't impacted that badly. A conference centre? Good luck with that.

Yeah well wildlife gets squeezed out of every urban development. I don't think as humans we need to apologize for also needing space to live and recreate. I'm allotted a lot fewer hectares on this earth than your average Canadian bear so I'm not going to lose to much sleep about it.

A conference centre is small, anyway. Like, do you even have any concept of just how enormous and undeveloped the land is in the rockies? There's enough space for a GD conference centre. Like, go to Google Earth, and start zoomed in on Canmore. Then start zooming out. It doesn't even register as a blip relative to its surrounding area. If some people want to risk their capital to enhance the area for more people to enjoy, they should be able to.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

When you say this will take away a small portion of hiking trails...we will wait and see. The golf courses weren't supposed to have a big impact, but once they decimated the wildlife corridors and a women got eaten by a cougar, well they closed one of the best trails in the valley. It was legendary. But hey! Golf! This will be the same ####. It's also pushed property taxes higher to pay for all the bungling that has gone on over the years.

There are thousands and thousands of square miles of mountains all around Canmore. Go hike wherever you want. If one of 1 million trails get disrupted, boo hoo.

I'm pretty sure you use the highway that tore through the mountains to get to the spots you like to hike. Do you fill up for gas and grab a bite to eat while you're there, too? Ever stayed at a hotel there? Gone skiing? Did you enjoy all of that development? But you draw the line at one more building? Sorry, you'd have a leg to stand on if you walked from your house through fields and forest to get to you favourite hiking spots, but since you hope on the twinned #1 and put 'er in cruise control at 120km/h while munching on a Big Mac I have a little less sympathy for your anti-development point of view.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This is just another bunch of rich tools looking to cash in on natural beauty at the expensive of everyone else because golf is dying and that plan didn't quite work out.

It's not at the expense of everyone; they intend to provide products/services people will want to use. It's for other people (while they naturally make a profit themselves for a return on their investment). If their golf courses are unprofitable, it will be addressed. Not your concern.

Originally Posted by GGG

No, it will give people the opportunity to explore being in a casino with a pretty backdrop. The packed nature of Lake Louise, Banff and Johnston canyon is good. Limit the impact to tourist zones. Canmore does not need to become a conference destination and you certainly don't need a Gondola to replace an easy two hot hike to the helipad.

Okay, well hiking gives you an opportunity to walk around with a pretty backdrop. Why don't you go walk around Dover. It's the same thing, really. Why go to Hawaii when you go to the water park at West Ed. Same thing, just a prettier backdrop.

Your argument makes no sense unless you're arguing that there is no value in being somewhere beautiful.

Originally Posted by GGG

Grass lakes is a wonderful hike right in town. Heart Creek is right there as well. A half hour down the road is Chester, Brustall and Rummel lakes. The Nordic centre is filled with nice trails. The Peter Lougheed park has Rawson lake, upper lakes, canyon, Mount Everest exhibition trial, paved bikes paths etc. Banff has a real mountain you can climb when you are a two year old. The area does not lack the Families with small kids or bus tourist hikes.

Except these areas are losing some of their appeal because they're so jam packed with people it's barely fun to go sometimes. Have you done Johnston Canyon recently. It's brutal with how many people are there. We need at least three Johnston Canyons. Development should be encouraged.

It's so funny you're saying how nice Johnston Canyon is. I bet anything there were the GGGs and Fuzzes in the 1970s using your exact arguments against it.

Originally Posted by GGG

the problem from a bear point of view is addition disturbance along the east to east. You create another layer of physical development between their North South travel. Adding cut lines to build the towers will also increase predators like cougars and wolves access to prey which dependin on how you view the elk and deer population could be a good thing.

The biggest issue is during construction you will completely cut off the Noeth South bear access on the east side of the highway pushing more bears towards the train tracks as their corridor.

Who gives a fata about five bears? If the multiple towns, highways, golf courses, trails, houses, restaurants, hotels, etc. etc. are fine, one more attraction to add value to our tourism industry isn't going to hurt.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Ok. So you missed my sarcasm. No big deal. You suggested the Lady Mac tea hut is an easy two hours stroll. Nevermind. But you've given me two things for mobility challenged people to do that creates the experience of a hike and climb that everyone else can do for free. And Sulphur Mountain isn't near by. It's a $20 entry fee and another 45 minutes. Same with Norquay. That's not much this side of Canmore. And you are beyond ignorant if you think $27 to ride a gondola is no different than $200+ for a chopper ride...much closer to $500 if you want to go somewhere good and land for a while. That's idiotic. Compared to what you and your well abled kids get to do for free it's a big deal.

Where do you draw the line? Do you want a gondola up Yamnuska too? I can't climb to the top of that, because I'm not a climber but I don't go demanding that I should have access. It's closer to Calgary, so there is another plus!

It's OK to accept there are some things you will never do. As has been mentioned, there are plenty of alternatives. Yes, they are a little farther drive, but they exist. How many times have you done them? Bored of them yet? The Norquay lift has fantastic views, better than you would get on Lady Mac, and it's not like it is at capacity. How many times have you done that?