Douglas Garland Trial - Guilty- 1st degree- 3 counts / 75 years no parole. - Page 45 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GGG · 02-20-2017, 06:49 PM

I'm amazed at how many people know people who have been murdered

WhiteTiger · 02-20-2017, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagofpucks

I didn't follow the trial as closely as some and I had a quick question about the timeline of events. I know it was by luck the the aerial photos were taken that had the bodies in the field, but how long after the family had been missing were those photos taken?

The family went missing on June 29th, were discovered missing on the 30th, the plane took the pictures with them in the picture early in the morning of July 1, and the pictures without them the next day.

src: http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/02/06...sing-for-crown

Northendzone · 02-20-2017, 07:21 PM

Still amazes me that those pictures were taken at the right time.

Breaks my heart reading the descriptions of how the Alvin, Kathy and Nathan were lying on the ground.

Zarley · 02-20-2017, 07:23 PM

Question for you legal folks: how much do defence lawyers make in comparison to prosecutors or corporate lawyers? I can't imagine the typical criminal lowlife has a ton of cash lying around to pay legal fees. Garland was an unemployed loser living with his parents, how is he paying for this defence?

I would have to think these defence attorneys would make much more if they were directing their talents toward corporate law.

PaperBagger'14 · 02-20-2017, 07:27 PM

My issue with defence lawyers is that if they simply were there for checks and balances against oppressive governments/police forces, that's completely understandable. When a defence lawyer preys upon our (in my opinion) weak judicial system and manages to drop a second degree murder charge to a manslaughter conviction, that's where I have an issue with their morality. The incident I am referring to is for a friends brother who was murdered in Calgary. I have very little respect for the type of lawyer who tries to minimize the sentence for a client who is clearly a murderer.

transplant99 · 02-20-2017, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

My issue with defence lawyers is that if they simply were there for checks and balances against oppressive governments/police forces, that's completely understandable. When a defence lawyer preys upon our (in my opinion) weak judicial system and manages to drop a second degree murder charge to a manslaughter conviction, that's where I have an issue with their morality. The incident I am referring to is for a friends brother who was murdered in Calgary. I have very little respect for the type of lawyer who tries to minimize the sentence for a client who is clearly a murderer.

All that would indicate to me is that the crown didn't think they had enough evidence to convict on murder 2, and instead made sure they got some justice with a manslaughter plead. Don't blame the defense in that case.

As for the last line...that is their job.

Reggie Dunlop · 02-20-2017, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarley

Question for you legal folks: how much do defence lawyers make in comparison to prosecutors or corporate lawyers? I can't imagine the typical criminal lowlife has a ton of cash lying around to pay legal fees. Garland was an unemployed loser living with his parents, how is he paying for this defence?

I would have to think these defence attorneys would make much more if they were directing their talents toward corporate law.

That is true. In the case of my friend (who started as a Crown Prosecutor BTW) they're working at "scale." It's a calling.

PaperBagger'14 · 02-20-2017, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

All that would indicate to me is that the crown didn't think they had enough evidence to convict on murder 2, and instead made sure they got some justice with a manslaughter plead. Don't blame the defense in that case.

As for the last line...that is their job.

I didn't follow the case closely enough to know all the nuances, however they found the weapon along with the suspect attempting to hide from the authorities.

I do get that is their job, but damn that's tough to respect. Being on the other side of things where you see someone get out of prison in under 5 years for killing another person, it sucks and it leaves me with a lot of resent towards the profession.

GGG · 02-20-2017, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I didn't follow the case closely enough to know all the nuances, however they found the weapon along with the suspect attempting to hide from the authorities.

I do get that is their job, but damn that's tough to respect. Being on the other side of things where you see someone get out of prison in under 5 years for killing another person, it sucks and it leaves me with a lot of resent towards the profession.

Isn't that the fault of the justice system and not of defence lawyer? Why don't you hold the crown, the judge and our laws in the same level of contempt

PaperBagger'14 · 02-20-2017, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGG

Isn't that the fault of the justice system and not of defence lawyer? Why don't you hold the crown, the judge and our laws in the same level of contempt

I did say in my first post that I feel it's defence attorneys preying on our weak judicial system.

Snuffleupagus · 02-20-2017, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGG

I'm amazed at how many people know people who have been murdered

Not close friends but I have personally known three victims. I would think if you're over 35 and live in a large city the odds would be in favor you'd know at least one victim.

Reggie Dunlop · 02-20-2017, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Not close friends but I have personally known three victims. I would think if you're over 35 and live in a large city the odds would be in favor you'd know at least one victim.

I'm 54 and I've known no murder victims nor perpetrators.

The Familia · 02-20-2017, 08:27 PM

Wow. For all those who can't read or have a lack of reading comprehension, never did I say defence lawyers are useless and bad people. They have a huge role in the justice system and are instrumental in providing a fair and just outcome to any case. There are countless times people have been wrongly accused for a crime and were saved because of their defence lawyer. On the other hand, how many lawyers have gotten a guilty person off their charge for whatever reason. It works both ways. I understand the system very well thanks, doesn't mean there are not flaws to it.

To re-state for those mentally incapable of reading, my comment was about Der specifically and was based on my experiences of the man. Am I not allowed to pass judgement on someone based on what I have seen, heard and experienced myself? People do this every second of every day including all of you. No one is liked by the entire world. So get off your high horse DiontheDman. I'm not the only guy in this city that dislikes that man. Get over it. I'm sure Der doesn't give a #### what I think of him just like how I don't give a #### what anyone on here thinks of me. Oh And I stand by my comment, I think he is a scummy lawyer.

Flames_Gimp · 02-20-2017, 08:28 PM

F this guy, human rights is for humans.. not monsters

The Familia · 02-20-2017, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGG

Isn't that the fault of the justice system and not of defence lawyer? Why don't you hold the crown, the judge and our laws in the same level of contempt

It is the fault of the whole system including lawyers, judges, government, etc. Hey are all responsible. The system in Canada is severely flawed. Why you may ask? I feel it is too sympathetic and soft towards the accused who are found guilty.

puffnstuff · 02-20-2017, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

I'm 54 and I've known no murder victims nor perpetrators.

i am not quite as old as Reggie McOldasBalls but I don't know any either.

RougeUnderoos · 02-20-2017, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Familia

Wow. For all those who can't read or have a lack of reading comprehension, never did I say defence lawyers are useless and bad people. They have a huge role in the justice system and are instrumental in providing a fair and just outcome to any case. There are countless times people have been wrongly accused for a crime and were saved because of their defence lawyer. On the other hand, how many lawyers have gotten a guilty person off their charge for whatever reason. It works both ways. I understand the system very well thanks, doesn't mean there are not flaws to it.

To re-state for those mentally incapable of reading, my comment was about Der specifically and was based on my experiences of the man. Am I not allowed to pass judgement on someone based on what I have seen, heard and experienced myself? People do this every second of every day including all of you. No one is liked by the entire world. So get off your high horse DiontheDman. I'm not the only guy in this city that dislikes that man. Get over it. I'm sure Der doesn't give a #### what I think of him just like how I don't give a #### what anyone on here thinks of me. Oh And I stand by my comment, I think he is a scummy lawyer.

I'm not really familiar with Der myself (unlike a lot of people here), but you appear to be, so do you know if he ever helped prove that an innocent person was, in fact, innocent?

Also, "watch your mouth" isn't really something anyone wants to hear from anyone, including their mother, who is really the only person who should be saying it.

Also also, I really doubt "those who can't read" or "those mentally incapable of reading" will be reading your post. You can probably skip that part of the message next time.

Wormius · 02-20-2017, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Familia

It is the fault of the whole system including lawyers, judges, government, etc. Hey are all responsible. The system in Canada is severely flawed. Why you may ask? I feel it is too sympathetic and soft towards the accused who are found guilty.

I don't understand your last sentence. Do you mean too soft and sympathetic on the guilty?

GGG · 02-20-2017, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Familia

It is the fault of the whole system including lawyers, judges, government, etc. Hey are all responsible. The system in Canada is severely flawed. Why you may ask? I feel it is too sympathetic and soft towards the accused who are found guilty.

So what do you suggest a defence lawyer does differently that he would still be preforming his duty to the system as currently legislated?

The Familia · 02-20-2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm not really familiar with Der myself (unlike a lot of people here), but you appear to be, so do you know if he ever helped prove that an innocent person was, in fact, innocent?

Also, "watch your mouth" isn't really something anyone wants to hear from anyone, including their mother, who is really the only person who should be saying it.

Also also, I really doubt "those who can't read" or "those mentally incapable of reading" will be reading your post. You can probably skip that part of the message next time.

I don't know every case he has ever worked on. I don't go to his house for dinner and chat. I'm sure he must have had an innocent client that he proved was innocent.

Thanks for the lecture. I'm scolded for choice of words in my commment, yet DiontheDman and others teed off on me and that is acceptable. Interesting.