Stockton Heat 2016/17 General Discussion

[442scotty]

Looks like the coach might have lost the room? Calling someone up once in a while might give players some spark too... Sucks

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Racki

Hunter Shinkaruk scored at a rate of .87 PPG his last year in Uitca and has scored at a .72 PPG since he arrive in Stockton.

Emile Poirier's numbers have gotten worse not better. His first season in the AHL he scored .76 PPG and has scored .46 PPG since.

Sven Baertschi was a .66 PPG player for Huska and was a 1.00 PPG player as soon as he went to Utica.

Kenny Agostino had .75 PPG in Stockton, .88 PPG in Chicago.

It seems to me that offensive players don't elevate their games in Stockton. I'm aware some of these stats are cherry picked and the differences are marginal in some cases but I'd like to see more development from these offensive players in our system.

Shinkaruk has been there for just over half a year with NHL recalls and injuries mixed in. Last season after the trade he was also adjusting to new teammates and this year he's missed almost half the season due to injury/recall, so I would imagine it would make it more difficult to get into a good rhythm. That could easily account for a marginal drop in production.

Poirier's time has all been under the same coach, so this is literally evidence of nothing. This is beyond cherry picking it's nothing more than an example of a player not developing.

Baertschi only played 36 games under Huska, and was 0.69, likely because he was disgruntled anytime he was sent down. He also only played 15 game with Utica, I am sure you could find 15 game stretches with Abbotsford that he had 15 points too. Well this is definitely cherry picked.

Agostino struggled in his first half season with Adirondack, but once he got going he was a very good offensive player for Stockton and it should be a shock to no one that he has continued to improve and as someone who watched all of his games with Adirondack and Stockton, I am not even shocked that he is leading the AHL in scoring.

Agostino is your only legitimate example and I could counter that with:

Derek Grant. Grant set a career high in points with 45 in just 36 games, the season prior in more than double the games Grant set his previous career high of 38.

Freddie Hamilton also never showed a drop in production after joining our organization and actually slightly improved his ppg.

Since you like marginal improvements and relatively small sample sizes, Vey improved his ppg by 0.22 moving from Utica to Stockton.

[Chris Biotti]

Just got back from the second game in Charlotte. Yikes. Rittich looked decent, though. First goal was a shoulder-high deflection. Second goal came on the pp after the penalty killers were caught out there for a long shift; Wotherspoon may have screened him, too. Third goal was an empty netter. The offence doesn't look too hot, but Leighton is a fantastic AHL goalie. The puck was sitting on our sticks for too long and that gave Leighton time to get into position. I don't think I saw a single one timer all night. Smith was absolutely horrible tonight. Janko still looked great. It'd be great to see what he could do with some decent wingers, like say Kris Versteeg and Sam Bennett. Bollig and Lomberg were much more engaged tonight.

Overall this team was a huge disappointment this weekend. Half of our players looked like they belong in Adirondack.

[Racki]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Shinkaruk has been there for just over half a year with NHL recalls and injuries mixed in. Last season after the trade he was also adjusting to new teammates and this year he's missed almost half the season due to injury/recall, so I would imagine it would make it more difficult to get into a good rhythm. That could easily account for a marginal drop in production.

Poirier's time has all been under the same coach, so this is literally evidence of nothing. This is beyond cherry picking it's nothing more than an example of a player not developing.

Baertschi only played 36 games under Huska, and was 0.69, likely because he was disgruntled anytime he was sent down. He also only played 15 game with Utica, I am sure you could find 15 game stretches with Abbotsford that he had 15 points too. Well this is definitely cherry picked.

Agostino struggled in his first half season with Adirondack, but once he got going he was a very good offensive player for Stockton and it should be a shock to no one that he has continued to improve and as someone who watched all of his games with Adirondack and Stockton, I am not even shocked that he is leading the AHL in scoring.

Agostino is your only legitimate example and I could counter that with:

Derek Grant. Grant set a career high in points with 45 in just 36 games, the season prior in more than double the games Grant set his previous career high of 38.

Freddie Hamilton also never showed a drop in production after joining our organization and actually slightly improved his ppg.

Since you like marginal improvements and relatively small sample sizes, Vey improved his ppg by 0.22 moving from Utica to Stockton.

Here's another, more scientific way to assess things. They suck, they almost always lose, nobody scores except Jankowski and they'd haven't had a playoff win in about 100 years.

I don't wanna get all Corsi nerd on ya here but it seems like none of them ever get called up and when they do, they don't contribute a goddamn thing.

Don't you think some of these guys should have advanced offensively? I watch a lot of these game on AHL live and I see guys totally checked out. We can argue the finer details of their statistics if you like but I know what I see. Guys that should be getting better are not getting better.

Maybe you can overcook guys in the minors, contrary to what our GM thinks and says. Maybe Shinkaruk, Poirier, and even Klimchuk are starting to realize that busting their balls in the hell hole that is Stockton, California wont necessarily earn them a trip to the big leagues?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Racki

Here's another, more scientific way to assess things. They suck, they almost always lose, nobody scores except Jankowski and they'd haven't had a playoff win in about 100 years.

I don't wanna get all Corsi nerd on ya here but it seems like none of them ever get called up and when they do, they don't contribute a goddamn thing.

Don't you think some of these guys should have advanced offensively? I watch a lot of these game on AHL live and I see guys totally checked out. We can argue the finer details of their statistics if you like but I know what I see. Guys that should be getting better are not getting better.

Maybe you can overcook guys in the minors, contrary to what our GM thinks and says. Maybe Shinkaruk, Poirier, and even Klimchuk are starting to realize that busting their balls in the hell hole that is Stockton, California wont necessarily earn them a trip to the big leagues?

Except they have advanced offensively. You don't think they have because you are comparing them to other clubs that run different systems. Another thing to note is that development isn't linear. Shinkaruk and Poirier are only 3rd year professionals, how would they be "overcooked"? Since being with us Shinkaruk has seen more NHL time than he did in Vancouver, but after less than a season with us he's given up? Poirier was bad last year, he didn't even deserve the NHL games he did get and both he and Shinkaruk were unimpressive in their last call-ups; if they think they deserve NHL jobs without earning it, then they would be the problem not how long they have been in the AHL because they have not earned anything to date.

Why would you put Klimchuk in that same boat? He's only in year 2 in the AHL and his first was pretty poor offensively, this year he is flourishing and has probably earned the opportunity to be recalled at some point.

You know what you sound like? One of those guys crying about Jankowski the past 4 years about how he wasn't producing enough to be a viable prospect. I'm not a fan of Huska and would be fine with him being fired, but to say the prospects aren't developing when we are seeing clear progression with many of them is nothing more than bull#### by a fan that doesn't watch or listen to games and only follows the stats sheet and the standings.

Anyone that knows anything about the AHL knows that team success does not mean NHL success, for example look at the Championship team that was in Saint John, they produced only a handful of NHLers. Team success in the AHL is often dictated by the teams with the best veteran core.

[Strange Brew]

What's the deal with Poirier? Seems like has gotten worse every year. That's not usual.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What's the deal with Poirier? Seems like has gotten worse every year. That's not usual.

Sounds like from several posts he has no compete level. The antithesis of Tkachuk!

Flames have focused one hockey sense, character, and skill when drafting.

Source: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/23...r-hockey-sense

Lets add compete to that list!

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

What's the deal with Poirier? Seems like has gotten worse every year. That's not usual.

It's really hard to say, but he really was only good for a couple months as a rookie IMO. I think he was initially force fed minutes and produced at a decent rate, but then when teams figured him out he was unable to adapt. He also plays the style of game that players get benched for, too many stupid penalties, doesn't pass when he should... etc. He's looking more and a more like a prospect that peaked too soon

[Cheese]

Going to post the game stats in the hope I can turn their luck around...havent posted for awhile...the jinx is off!

Stockton Heat 0 at Charlotte Checkers 3 - Status: Final
Saturday, February 11, 2017 - Bojangles' Coliseum

Stockton 0 0 0 - 0
Charlotte 0 2 1 - 3

1st Period- No Scoring.Penalties-Brown Cha (high-sticking), 0:43; Carroll Stk (tripping), 4:01; Poturalski Cha (high-sticking), 5:11; Aulie Stk (tripping), 11:48; Morrison Stk (slashing), 17:50; Wotherspoon Stk (tripping), 19:35.

2nd Period-1, Charlotte, Brickley 5 (Chelios, Fleury), 16:22. 2, Charlotte, Carrick 2 (Poturalski, Chelios), 19:02 (PP). Penalties-Poturalski Cha (tripping), 3:58; Nestrasil Cha (delay of game), 5:50; Shinkaruk Stk (slashing), 17:11.

3rd Period-3, Charlotte, Wallmark 16 (Dwyer), 19:11 (EN). Penalties-Chelios Cha (cross-checking), 6:32.

Shots on Goal-Stockton 5-8-10-23. Charlotte 11-18-5-34.
Power Play Opportunities-Stockton 0 / 5; Charlotte 1 / 5.
Goalies-Stockton, Rittich 7-8-1 (33 shots-31 saves). Charlotte, Leighton 11-7-3 (23 shots-23 saves).
A-7,771

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

It's really hard to say, but he really was only good for a couple months as a rookie IMO. I think he was initially force fed minutes and produced at a decent rate, but then when teams figured him out he was unable to adapt. He also plays the style of game that players get benched for, too many stupid penalties, doesn't pass when he should... etc. He's looking more and a more like a prospect that peaked too soon

Any reason to believe they bring him back next year?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

There is a slight chance that our prospects just aren't very good. Maybe they're not lighting it up because they just aren't that great offensively?

I'm just going off of small sample sizes of what I've seen when guys have been called up. But Shinkaruk has been 'meh', Poirier hasn't shown much of anything offensively. And I'm not talking about the points they put up, I'm just going with my eyeball test.

Haven't seen enough of Janko yet to comment. Do we have any elite offensive prospects down there? Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that a bunch of 3rd/4th line prospects aren't lighting the world on fire.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There is a slight chance that our prospects just aren't very good. Maybe they're not lighting it up because they just aren't that great offensively?

I'm just going off of small sample sizes of what I've seen when guys have been called up. But Shinkaruk has been 'meh', Poirier hasn't shown much of anything offensively. And I'm not talking about the points they put up, I'm just going with my eyeball test.

Haven't seen enough of Janko yet to comment. Do we have any elite offensive prospects down there? Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that a bunch of 3rd/4th line prospects aren't lighting the world on fire.

Shinkaruk was great elsewhere in the AHL (39 points in 45 games under a different coach), Poirier had 19 goals in his rookie year under a different coach, even the vets on AHL contracts were better elsewhere.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Shinkaruk was great elsewhere in the AHL (39 points in 45 games under a different coach), Poirier had 19 goals in his rookie year under a different coach, even the vets on AHL contracts were better elsewhere.

Maybe Poirier has already peaked? Perhaps this is as good as it gets for him.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There is a slight chance that our prospects just aren't very good. Maybe they're not lighting it up because they just aren't that great offensively?

I'm just going off of small sample sizes of what I've seen when guys have been called up. But Shinkaruk has been 'meh', Poirier hasn't shown much of anything offensively. And I'm not talking about the points they put up, I'm just going with my eyeball test.

Haven't seen enough of Janko yet to comment. Do we have any elite offensive prospects down there? Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that a bunch of 3rd/4th line prospects aren't lighting the world on fire.

I think that is a possibility, none of them are future first line talents, but I think part of it is also that the veteran support system just isn't that great or deep. We're running with 2 rookies in net, of the 6 regulars on the blueline 2 are rookies (one is only in the AHL due to his late birthday) and 2 are sophomores (one is 19) and up front of the 14 regulars we have 4 rookies, 3 more sophomores and even Shinkaruk & Poirier would be sophomores if they weren't late birthdays. This team is EXTREMELY young even by AHL standards.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Shinkaruk was great elsewhere in the AHL (39 points in 45 games under a different coach), Poirier had 19 goals in his rookie year under a different coach, even the vets on AHL contracts were better elsewhere.

Poirier's rookie year was with the same coach and as I pointed out earlier, Shinkaruk has been in and out of the lineup in the AHL since he was recalled due to either recalls or injury.

Another thing to point out that I didn't before is Huska rolls 4 lines lines regularly. Other teams will give more ice-time to their top lines. I can't say for certain Utica does that because I never watched them, but if they did the extra couple minutes a game when you are playing well can really help a player produce, especially one as streaky as Shinkaruk.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

There is a slight chance that our prospects just aren't very good. Maybe they're not lighting it up because they just aren't that great offensively?

I'm just going off of small sample sizes of what I've seen when guys have been called up. But Shinkaruk has been 'meh', Poirier hasn't shown much of anything offensively. And I'm not talking about the points they put up, I'm just going with my eyeball test.

Haven't seen enough of Janko yet to comment. Do we have any elite offensive prospects down there? Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that a bunch of 3rd/4th line prospects aren't lighting the world on fire.

This is my biggest fear also. If none of poirier, klimchuck,shinkaruk, Jankowski don't emerge to middle 6 guys, it will be extremely disappointing.

The "suck, draft high, draft often" part of this rebuild has come and gone. Outside of the top pick selected in those drafts we don't seem to have much in the way of top end talent in the cupboards.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Any reason to believe they bring him back next year?

Poirier has another year on his contract, so he'll be back.

I've noticed that lineups have been showing him on the left side when he prefers the right. Could be a bone of contention.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Poirier has another year on his contract, so he'll be back.

I've noticed that lineups have been showing him on the left side when he prefers the right. Could be a bone of contention.

Is this not last year of his entry level contract?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is this not last year of his entry level contract?

Nope, because of when he signed his contract and the year in ADK was only his draft +2 year, it slid still. Just like Andersson's contract is sliding this year and Kylington's last year and this year.

[Vulcan]

Both Shinkaruk and Poirier were signed to 4 year entry contracts.