[Signing] Bruins sign Marchand to 8 year $49 mil extension

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by codynw

Playing with Bergeron probably helps with that.

No doubt, but let's not act like Marchand isn't a fantastic player in his own right.

[FanIn80]

This is awesome. Marchand's been one of my faves for years now. Good for him!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

No doubt, but let's not act like Marchand isn't a fantastic player in his own right.

I wouldn't go as far as "fantastic" but in general I'd say yeah, he's pretty good. I'm not sure about the "in his own right".... He's juiced quite a bit playing with Bergeron.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I wouldn't go as far as "fantastic" but in general I'd say yeah, he's pretty good. I'm not sure about the "in his own right".... He's juiced quite a bit playing with Bergeron.

I would argue that anyone who made it on to Team Canada's roster is a pretty fantastic player

[Enoch Root]

And he has been one of Team Canada's best players.

That isn't just because of Bergeron

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Parallex

It's not. 2nd line money these days is more in the 4M-5M range. He's getting 1st line money which I don't have a huge objection to in the short term. He's 28... he'll probably be able to maintain his level of play for two or three years but after that it's far more likely then not that he declines. So 75% of this hefty contract is going to be spent on a declining Brad Marchand... It'd be one thing if he were declining from a very high level but he won't be.

This is not a good contract (For the Bruins... it's an exceptional contract for Brad Marchand).

Steen's making 5.8M. Backes is making 6M. Ladd is making 5.5M. Lucic is making 6M. Plekanec is making 6M. Kesler is making 6.9M. Bolland is making 5.5M. Foligno is making 5.5M. Pomminville is making 5.6M. Eriksson is making 6M. Nielson is making 5.3M.

All of those players are in a similar position to Marchand in that, if they were even considered first line players to begin with, they certainly were not the straw that stirs the drinks on the top line. A lot of them were even older when they signed the contracts, so the teams got only "declining" years. And Marchand is coming off a season where, had he not missed 5 games, he's probably top 5 in goal scoring.

Bolland and Pomminville do help support your point, but based on comparables this has to be considered at least a fair contract.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And $6.1M isn't really 2nd line money IMO.

Originally Posted by Parallex

It's not. 2nd line money these days is more in the 4M-5M range.

Here is each team's most comparable player in terms of salary. Obviously I've excluded RFA deals and special cases like Marion Hossa.

Aside from a couple of them, notably Backstrom and Pavelski and maybe Simmonds and Wheeler, I would take Marchand over all of these guys at the money they're making... or at worst, it's a toss up.

ANA - Ryan Kesler, 6.875M
ARI - Shane Doan, 4.84M
BUF - Kyle Okposo, 6M
CGY - Troy Brouwer, 4.5M
CAR - Jordan Staal, 6M
CHI - Artem Anisimov, 4.5M
COL - Jarome Iginla, 5.3M
CBJ - Brandon Dubinsky, 5.85M
DAL - Patrick Sharp, 5.9M
DET - Frans Nielsen, 5.25M
EDM - Milan Lucic, 6M
FLA - Jaromir Jagr, 5.5M
LAK - Dustin Brown, 5.875M
MIN - Jason Pominville, 5.6M
MTL - Tomas Plekanec, 6M
NSH - James Neal, 5M
NJD - Travis Zajac, 5.75M
NYI - Andrew Ladd, 5.5M
NYR - Derek Stepan, 6.5M
OTT - Derrick Brassard, 5M
PHI - Wayne Simmmonds, 3.975M
PIT - Patrick Hornqvist, 4.75M
SJS - Joe Pavelski, 6M
STL - Alex Steen, 5.8M
TBL - Ryan Callahan, 5.8M
TOR - Joffrey Lupul, 5.25M
VAN - Loui Eriksson, 6M
WSH - Nicklas Backstrom, 6.7M
WPG - Blake Wheeler, 5.6M

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I understand the deal but it could be pretty ugly on the back half when he's in his 30's.

I think we need to start accepting the fact that every team is going have 1-2 contracts like this.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I think we need to start accepting the fact that every team is going have 1-2 contracts like this.

Absolutely. I imagine compliance buyouts will be something revisited every CBA as in 5 or more years half the league will have rosters paralyzed due to 30+ year old players on the back half of these deals. For example Suter and Parise both carry $7.5 million cap hits into their 40's. They will have to hope for more compliance buyouts or that teams with plenty of cap space like the Coyotes will take them.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

All of those players are in a similar position to Marchand

It's easy to cherry pick names. I said that 2nd line money is 4M-5M I didn't say that no 2nd liners (or folk that produce like them) made that much or more. Let me put it to you this way... if you took the salary of every 2nd line guy who were expected to be that at the time of the signing (excluding ELC & RFA bridge deals) do you think the average salary would be $6.1M?

Although that's besides the point... I did say this:

Originally Posted by Parallex

He's getting 1st line money which I don't have a huge objection to in the short term.

So I don't even disagree about the per season $$ being fine (for now).

The important part being "in the short term". Paying 6.13 to Brad Marchand now and in a year or two is fine. Paying 6.13 to Brad Marchand beyond that point is IMO highly inadvisable. Basically, I think for performance you'll get fair market value for the next few seasons but after that you won't, I don't believe there is any surplus value to be had here and IMO you need to get surplus value at least at one end of the contract if you get below value performance (as I expect the Bruins will) at the other.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Absolutely. I imagine compliance buyouts will be something revisited every CBA as in 5 or more years half the league will have rosters paralyzed due to 30+ year old players on the back half of these deals. For example Suter and Parise both carry $7.5 million cap hits into their 40's. They will have to hope for more compliance buyouts or that teams with plenty of cap space like the Coyotes will take them.

I'd bet there will be more compliance buyouts in 2022. Dumb teams like the Wild have nothing to fear.

[PepsiFree]

Given his age, his ability, and his role, this contract is pretty much perfect for Marchand.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Parallex

It's easy to cherry pick names.

Except I didn't.

Steen, Nielsen, Eriksson, Backes, Ladd, Lucic, Plekanec, Okposo and Kesler is a complete list of forwards over the age of 28 signed between 5-7M in the last 2 seasons. They are all comparable to Marchand.

Bolland and Pominville, as I said, was throwing you a bone and agreeing that these contracts can come back to haunt the team. But in terms of comparables to Marchand, they are all making comparable salary.

As for second line numbers, I don't think you can average out a second line and suggest that's what a second liner makes anymore than you could do that with first liners. Imagine if it does become Gaudreau, Monahan and Chiasson...average top line for the Flames is going to be about 5M. Even Brouwer would make it 6M...

Instead you got to look at what comparables are making at UFA and at this point I would say it's something like:

10+ - Elite top tier player
8+ - Undisputed first liner
6+ - Capable first liner/anchor for a good second line
4+ - Top 6 forward

[Jojado]

Pretty much the epitome of a player you'd talk s*** about and hate to play against, but would have on your own team in a heartbeat.

[Locke]

Shine on you crazy little ball of hate.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Parallex

It's easy to cherry pick names.

Which is why I posted the closest comparable player on every single team in the league?

Seriously, you're still going to double down on this? It's amazing how people can be shown to be mistaken with unequivocal and irrefutable data and stubbornly insist that they were right to begin with.

[CsInMyBlood]

I can't believe Kesler makes 6.875. What a joke.

I think Marchand is totally worth that contract. He does SO much more than score goals and collect points. Very hard to play against, ultimate shift distuber, an excellent penalty killer and has speed to burn.

He has also proven to score clutch goals at the highest levels. Don't know how many guys in the NHL are as complete as him but there sure aren't many.

[sun]

Looks about right.

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I can't believe Kesler makes 6.875. What a joke.

Only until the end of the 2021-22 season.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Here is each team's most comparable player in terms of salary. Obviously I've excluded RFA deals and special cases like Marion Hossa.

Aside from a couple of them, notably Backstrom and Pavelski and maybe Simmonds and Wheeler, I would take Marchand over all of these guys at the money they're making... or at worst, it's a toss up.

ANA - Ryan Kesler, 6.875M
ARI - Shane Doan, 4.84M
BUF - Kyle Okposo, 6M
CGY - Troy Brouwer, 4.5M
CAR - Jordan Staal, 6M
CHI - Artem Anisimov, 4.5M
COL - Jarome Iginla, 5.3M
CBJ - Brandon Dubinsky, 5.85M
DAL - Patrick Sharp, 5.9M
DET - Frans Nielsen, 5.25M
EDM - Milan Lucic, 6M
FLA - Jaromir Jagr, 5.5M
LAK - Dustin Brown, 5.875M
MIN - Jason Pominville, 5.6M
MTL - Tomas Plekanec, 6M
NSH - James Neal, 5M
NJD - Travis Zajac, 5.75M
NYI - Andrew Ladd, 5.5M
NYR - Derek Stepan, 6.5M
OTT - Derrick Brassard, 5M
PHI - Wayne Simmmonds, 3.975M
PIT - Patrick Hornqvist, 4.75M
SJS - Joe Pavelski, 6M
STL - Alex Steen, 5.8M
TBL - Ryan Callahan, 5.8M
TOR - Joffrey Lupul, 5.25M
VAN - Loui Eriksson, 6M
WSH - Nicklas Backstrom, 6.7M
WPG - Blake Wheeler, 5.6M

This list has 3 "second liners" getting more than Marchand. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with the posts you quoted?

Nevermind, I see now you disagree. I was distracted in posting due to the brawl in the Jays game.