I think it's bizarre for a suspension to be dependent on outside variables and not just on the event itself
if a suspension is worth 5 games let it be 5 games, 1 let it be 1 etc.
Ok, that's fair. Though it isn't exactly unheard of. I may be misremembering, but I believe Cooke was suspended for the last several regular season games + round 1of the playoffs a couple years ago. Maurice Richard's infamous suspension was also a "balance of the playoffs" decision. And, of course, Bertuzzi's suspension was set at "whatever the hell we feel like".
It was a clean hit in 1996 but not today. This is the key point that most seem to be missing. For better or worse rules change. This is one of them. In 2013, this is a suspendible offence.
Just saw the hit, and the explanation from Shanahan. I have to think a lot of the "that's not a penalty" comments are coming from born in the blood Don Cherry followers.
Guys, it's simple, head shots are resulting in shortened careers. Repetitive head shots are resulting in severe brain damage resulting in depression, anxiety, personality disorders, mood disorders... all leading to a severe risk of suicide. If you're for all of that stuff go watch football where they don't seem to care as much if it happens.
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Originally Posted by ResAlien
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Can someone tell me how the Torres hit is different than the Stewart/Landeskog hit from January?
Both are hard hits where the vicitm's shoulder is the initial point of contact, but the hitter's shoulder slides off and rams into the victim's head.
NO ONE called for a suspension of Stewart. Even Landeskog, after initially crying foul, a few days later said that upon further review, he put himself into a vulnerable position and vowed to keep his head up in the future...
When it comes to hits like these, I admit that I can't see clearly though my homer eyes.
Can someone tell me how the Torres hit is different than the Stewart/Landeskog hit from January?
Both are hard hits where the vicitm's shoulder is the initial point of contact, but the hitter's shoulder slides off and rams into the victim's head.
NO ONE called for a suspension of Stewart. Even Landeskog, after initially crying foul, a few days later said that upon further review, he put himself into a vulnerable position and vowed to keep his head up in the future...
When it comes to hits like these, I admit that I can't see clearly though my homer eyes.
Well first of all, he hits him straight on, not a glancing blow where you drive by and take out just the player's head. He hits the chest first and follows up. Landeskog didn't really do anything wrong there, just wasn't paying attention for a split second and got clocked. My guess is he was trying to defuse the situation more than anything else.
That being said, Stuart does sort of leap up and leave his feet on the follow through. I know that's part of the motion, but it does seem like he tries to "pop" him when he was vulnerable. I just wish these guys would try and skate through the player rather than try and pop them up in the air. It would make for far less injuries on hits.
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Originally Posted by ResAlien
If we can't fall in love with replaceable bottom 6 players then the terrorists have won.
Well first of all, he hits him straight on, not a glancing blow where you drive by and take out just the player's head. He hits the chest first and follows up.
Using Shanahan's explanation, it looks like the principal point of contact was with the head and the chest was merely a glancing blow.
Regardless, the message seems to be that any hit that CAN come into contact with the head could be a reckless hit that can result in a suspension.
^^I'm with you these hits are not uncommon and rarely brought up but Torres is getting it cause it was a really good hit and he is Torres.
Torres wanted to cream a guy fair and square but the player was so concerned about control of the puck he left himself, at the last second (after Torres committed) vulnerable. Torres had no idea that player would leave themselves that open to get nailed and he shouldn't have to. He came in to lay a great check in the playoffs and couldn't count on the other guy to play like a pro and not be in such a vulnerable position.
Who the heck are these pro players that think they can play with their head down and not expect to get rocked? They are the exact same guys who turn their backs when they are on the boards right before they get hit.
The hitter was doing his job hard as any pro should ,the guy hit left his brain on the bench.
I thought the hit on Spezza in overtime last night was pretty bad. It's just that Spezza didn't get hurt.
Players are ignoring the puck and hitting the player reaching for the puck. The puck is right there coming towards Adams. Why doesn't he get to the puck first then use his body to shield off Spezza instead? A turnover like that could lead to a goal.. the hit leads to nothing since he purposely allows the puck to leave the offensive zone.
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Last edited by GirlySports; 05-20-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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I thought the hit on Spezza in overtime last night was pretty bad. It's just that Spezza didn't get hurt.
Players are ignoring the puck and hitting the player reaching for the puck. The puck is right there coming towards Adams. Why doesn't he get to the puck first then use his body to shield off Spezza instead? A turnover like that could lead to a goal.. the hit leads to nothing since he purposely allows the puck to leave the offensive zone.
There's no targeting on that hit. Adams hits him square on, similar to the Stuart/Landeskog hit and the Cowen/Skinner hit as well. Those hits are all examples of a hit where the head may be the principal point of contact, but it's hit as part of a full body check. Instead of a hit like the Torres hit where the player doesn't hit or makes minor contact with the body, that's where the distinction is.
^^Did you not see Torres line up his shoulder to hit the other guy?
It was a shoulder to shoulder initial point of contact. You give grace that the head is hit during a full body check is ok for Spezza but a shoulder to shoulder full body and the head for torres hit isn't??
How do you not see exactly what you are claiming that Adams did that Torres didn't?
For the sake of safety I would take a hit over the shoulder anytime over a shoulder to the chest.
^^Did you not see Torres line up his shoulder to hit the other guy?
It was a shoulder to shoulder initial point of contact. You give grace that the head is hit during a full body check is ok for Spezza but a shoulder to shoulder full body and the head for torres hit isn't??
How do you not see exactly what you are claiming that Adams did that Torres didn't?
For the sake of safety I would take a hit over the shoulder anytime over a shoulder to the chest.
The biggest difference in the Torres and Spezza hits for me (and there are a lot of them) is East / West for Torres, North / South on the Spezza hit. Makes a huge difference in what the hitter needs to be thinking, and for me, how aware the victim of the hit needs to be about his own position on the ice.
The biggest difference in the Torres and Spezza hits for me (and there are a lot of them) is East / West for Torres, North / South on the Spezza hit. Makes a huge difference in what the hitter needs to be thinking, and for me, how aware the victim of the hit needs to be about his own position on the ice.
So you think a hit shoulder to chest N/S is safer than a shoulder to shoulder going E/W?
So you think a hit shoulder to chest N/S is safer than a shoulder to shoulder going E/W?
That's a massive oversimplification of the situation. I do think a shoulder to chest is safer than a clip of the shoulder, bulk of impact ot head, which is what happened in these two situaitons.
Here are my thoughts on it as a whole. North / South plays are the main plays in hockey. When you have the puck, you are tought to keep your head up so you can see who's coming towards you as you skate down the ice. If you have the puck (or about to pick it up), it is your responsibility to be aware of who'd coming towards you head on. This is what happened on the Spezza play. A player skating up the ice with his head down, could actually make it impossible to hit him North / South if he keeps his head down, because it's almost impossible to not make the head the point of contact. This isn't what the NHL is looking to remove from the game, players still need to be responsible and do the right thing, and stopping North / South plays would be silly. On a North / South play, there really should only be 3 things a hitter could do for it to be deemed a head shot IMO and have the book thrown at him: 1. Jump, leave feet (charging), 2. Get the elbow up (elbowing), 3. this one is tougher to judge, but getting down low, then propelling up to catch the player under the chin. Do any of those 3 on a North / South and you have my support that the head was targeted. None of these things happened on the Spezza hit.
East / West is different. Harder for the player being hit to be prepared, so if you are going to blind side someone, more of the ownis of responsibility of the hit falls to the hitter. Luckily, it's also easier to pick your contact point going east / west even if the player does have his head down. You can target the: Head, body (shoulder to waist) or legs (waist to skates). Obviously the league wants folks to target the body in these situations, and especially not the head. On an east / west hit, if you contact the head, regardless of how, it's a head shot. This is what Torres did.
I'll admit, my thoughts on the Torres play evolved twice since it happened. At first I thought, well he did catch some shoulder, glanced off of it and then hit the head. He was probably trying to hit shoulder and just missed, so I was ok with it. Then, I thought more and went, yah, but it's Torres. He's a reckless player and has been warned many times. Torres has to be sure he's not going to hit the head when he hits, even if it's not his intent because a guy like that needs to be taught that he has to be sure before he hits or he'll keep on hurting people. So I became fine with the suspension.
However, finally I thought, regardless of who it is, I'm 100% ok with the NHL saying, if you are going to blindside someone East / West, that's ok, but the hitter is 100% responsible to make sure the hit gets executed properly and the head isn't hit at all, I'm good with that. East / West hits don't have to happen, and if players want to throw them, it should be on them to be completely sure they catch it correctly.
Last edited by Cleveland Steam Whistle; 05-22-2013 at 09:32 AM.
