EV's and Transportation as a Service to kill Alberta economy by 2030?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by photon

If it's one thing motorcycle riders need it's to be quieter and even easier for inattentive people to miss. I wonder if the fatality rate on electric motorcycles will be a lot higher.

Maybe if they follow the rules of the road that fatality rate would be much lower? I've seen several instances of riders becoming road pizza simply because they ride like idiots. Don't want to be squashed by a semi or fly over the trunk of a car in traffic? Maybe don't lane surf like those lines don't apply to you? Don't want to get run off the road by someone changing lanes? Maybe don't come flying up at 40-60 MPH over the speed limit? A particular style of motorcycle isn't going make a difference. Rider behavior will.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe if they follow the rules of the road that fatality rate would be much lower? I've seen several instances of riders becoming road pizza simply because they ride like idiots. Don't want to be squashed by a semi or fly over the trunk of a car in traffic? Maybe don't lane surf like those lines don't apply to you? Don't want to get run off the road by someone changing lanes? Maybe don't come flying up at 40-60 MPH over the speed limit? A particular style of motorcycle isn't going make a difference. Rider behavior will.

Well there are some riders who drive recklessly, it's a small minority. Bad drivers also drive cars and trucks.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well there are some riders who drive recklessly, it's a small minority. Bad drivers also drive cars and trucks.

Yes they do, and I don't think putting them in something noisy is going to change their behaviors either.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by photon

If it's one thing motorcycle riders need it's to be quieter and even easier for inattentive people to miss. I wonder if the fatality rate on electric motorcycles will be a lot higher.

Yes. Clearly the correct route is to make your bike as loud as possible and rev it at any opportunity, ensuring that no babies are dangerously asleep in any nearby houses.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

India's manufacturers ramping up

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Toyota Prototypes Ethereum Blockchain Based Car Sharing Uber Alternative

http://www.trustnodes.com/2017/05/28...ampaign=buffer

If you haven't heard of the Etherium programming language...you will...

[Cowboy89]

Interesting Article

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...l-projections/

“We cannot even begin to comprehend the transformation in the mobility arena that is coming at us,” Jules Kortenhorst, chief executive officer of the Rocky Mountain Institute, based in Boulder, Colorado, said in an interview. “It’s not a question if it will come, it’s only a question of what the timing of the arrival will be.”

[para transit fellow]

Electric Buses Arrive in St. Albert
https://stalbert.ca/cosa/news/releas...ve-in-stalbert

Consultants found that an electric bus would break even when compared to the similar 20 year life of a diesel bus.

Add Alberta's green trip fund covering 33% of the capital outlay... And electric buses hit the road in Alberta.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

Toyota Prototypes Ethereum Blockchain Based Car Sharing Uber Alternative

http://www.trustnodes.com/2017/05/28...ampaign=buffer

If you haven't heard of the Etherium programming language...you will...

That sounds awesome. Thanks fozzie!

[Fuzz]

Ah yes, the cost estimate that worked under the assumption they could get 18 years out of one battery and never replace an electric motor. Good times.

Assessment
http://pbtech.org/clients/stalbert/a...pplication.pdf

Lifespan of about 7 years for batteries:
https://www.trafikstyrelsen.dk/~/med...0-%20final.pdf

and I remember reading motors don't last the full life of the bus, either.

I'm not against electric buses, but I don't think St Albert received an honest estimate of the costs.

[para transit fellow]

I thought the $205,000 in lifetime maintenance costs included the batteries and electric motors (compared to $285,000 for diesel covers a couple of engines and transmissions).

[Fuzz]

D. Maintenance Cost Savings
Since there is no internal combustion engine or a transmission there will be some
maintenance savings over the life the electric bus too. These savings are:
o
Regular oil changes / services = $11,000 over the life of the bus
o
Engine rebuild = $40,000 over the life of the bus
o
Transmission rebuild = $10,000 over the life of the bus
o
Engine injectors,
DPF cleaning and changes, other engine related regular
maintenance = $20,000 over the life of the bus
The total maintenance savings are estimated to be $81,000 over 18 yrs.
E. Total Cost Savings
Using the new estimated capital cost of the electric bus and
our current diesel bus, with
some price adjustment for inflation and lower CDN dollar, the calculations are:
Attachment 2
Cost Analysis
Page
3
Electric bus
$928,000 Capital cost
+ $80,280 total energy operational costs (18 yrs)
+ $205,000 Regular maintenance & repairs (brakes, tires, h
eating, etc)
= $1,213,280 over the life of the bus
Diesel bus
$550,000 Capital cost
+ $476,280 total energy operational costs (18 yrs)
+ $81,000 Diesel specific maintenance costs
+ $205,000 Regular maintenance & repairs (brakes, tires, heating, etc)
= $1,312,280 over the life of the bus
A difference of $99,000 over the life of the bus.

I don't think so. The regular maint. costs are the same for Diesel and Electric, which seems to indicate that is general maintenance common to both vehicles. Only the Diesel lists extra costs. Something, surly is missing here.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think so. The regular maint. costs are the same for Diesel and Electric, which seems to indicate that is general maintenance common to both vehicles. Only the Diesel lists extra costs. Something, surly is missing here.

Yes, all the stuff on electric buses that doesn't need to be fixed.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Yes, all the stuff on electric buses that doesn't need to be fixed.

Like batteries, electronic controllers and electric motors? They will not last 18 years. And they are not cheap.

[GGG]

It also presumes that the cost of electricity, inflation and the cost of diesel will all rise at exactly the same rate. At least use forward looking curves for all 3.

With green trip funding from the St Albert point of view it's a no brainer. Though I suspect delaying the conversion of the fleet for 2-5 years would pay significant dividends

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Like batteries, electronic controllers and electric motors? They will not last 18 years. And they are not cheap.

Electric motors last over 20 years typically. The battery omission is so glaring that it's probably part off the sales agreement to have a replacement battery lease. Much less likely that there's malfeasance as you're suggesting.

Ultimately, electric buses are going to dominate the global market in ten years. They're just way better: cheaper quieter non polluting nicer for passengers. Get used to them.

[Fuzz]

Well OK then. We will revisit this thread in 8 years when St Albert suddenly realizes their buses are only getting 60% range they expected, and need new batteries.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well OK then. We will revisit this thread in 8 years when St Albert suddenly realizes their buses are only getting 60% range they expected, and need new batteries.

IIRC BYD buses use a battery chemistry that is more robust than Li-ion batteries with a trade off of less energy density (which doesn't matter as much in closed loop systems like bus routes, garbage truck routes where you know exactly how far you are going to be going between charges)

[Fuzz]

My previous link says otherwise.
https://www.trafikstyrelsen.dk/~/med...0-%20final.pdf

Li-ion, page 5, lifespan, page 31.

Also, "Lifetime assessment from analysis of BYD data and cell testing suggest an expected lifetime of nearly 7 years to 80% remaining capacity in Danish temperature conditions."

I wonder if it would be worse in cold climates?

[Snuffleupagus]

Volvo: Gas cars are history after 2019
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/05/auto...ine/index.html

The first major auto company to step out, We know who'll be last but Toyota, Nissan and Honda next?