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Old 05-10-2017, 01:58 PM   #521
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Captain, looking at that report, what is the possibility of us upgrading the Griffons along the lines of the USMC UH-1Y project?
The Griffon's were never really the right helicopters to purchase, low engine power and bad flight characteristics made it completely unsuitable to a high altitude operation like Afghanistan. Its not a good transport helicopter nor is it useful as a low altitude scout helicopter.

But the time is coming for this decision as well as the Griffin's are due to retire in 4 years.

Right now, I would think that the helicopter of choice might be the Sikorsky MH-60M or Blackhawk I.

The Blackhawk I has better capacity and combat effective range and its slightly cheaper then the Venom.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:07 PM   #522
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On another note, I would approach the Russians and see if they'd sell us the license for the MI-24 Super hind.

WE could even get Bombardier to make them for us.

Of course they'd probably cost more the the F-35 per helicopter.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:12 PM   #523
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On another note, I would approach the Russians and see if they'd sell us the license for the MI-24 Super hind.

WE could even get Bombardier to make them for us.

Of course they'd probably cost more the the F-35 per helicopter.
Why not just ask the USMC for some of their surplus Cobras?
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:19 PM   #524
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12 new subs! Wow! I never thought I'd see a proposal like that. Can't wait to see how badly we screw that up.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:19 PM   #525
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Why not just ask the USMC for some of their surplus Cobras?
Cobra's are just pure attack helicopters.

Whereas Hinds and this is all a theoretical excercise are true multirole.

They can act as troop transports carrying a squad of 8 to 10 men. At the same time they're heavily armored and armed so protect themselves extremely well.

they have similar lift and speed capabilities to most normal transport helicopters.

The Cobra's are strictly attack helicopters and I don't think that Canada has the budget for a fleet of pure ground attack helicopters and transport helicopters.

Again completely theoretical, but on the world market the UH-60M is about 20 million bucks a copy, the Superhind is estimated as $12 million dollars per copy.

It would be an elegant solution in a way to get an attack/transport helicopter in one box
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:20 PM   #526
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Not to mention they look pretty boss.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:21 PM   #527
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12 new subs! Wow! I never thought I'd see a proposal like that. Can't wait to see how badly we screw that up.
Never going to happen, remember this is just a senate position paper.

The money that Canada would need to spend on defense to meet its NATO requirements is never going to happen.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:23 PM   #528
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Never going to happen, remember this is just a senate position paper.

The money that Canada would need to spend on defense to meet its NATO requirements is never going to happen.
It's going to be hard for us to justify having any seat at any table over the next half-century if we continue to refuse to do so.

The Aussies just guaranteed the military at budget at 2% of government spending regardless of economic impacts on the budget.

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Old 05-10-2017, 02:28 PM   #529
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It's going to be hard for us to justify having any seat at any table over the next half-century if we refused to do so.

The Aussies just guaranteed the military at budget at 2% of government spending regardless of economic impacts on the budget.
Any seat at the table, its likely we'll have no seat at the table. I doubt that there will be too many Canadians' in NATO command positions going forward.

Nor will Canadians be asked to run missions of any importance.

Basically we'll be flying rubber dog sh%% to China.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:38 PM   #530
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Any seat at the table, its likely we'll have no seat at the table. I doubt that there will be too many Canadians' in NATO command positions going forward.

Nor will Canadians be asked to run missions of any importance.

Basically we'll be flying rubber dog sh%% to China.
In Ukrainian planes.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:44 PM   #531
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Actually we'll be the Meg Griffin of NATO in terms of our word meaning anything

Canada (Meg) - "You know I think that we should do this"

NATO (Peter) - "Shut up Meg"
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:37 PM   #532
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Yes please.

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Old 05-15-2017, 09:42 AM   #533
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The Liberals are delaying the release of their defense policy, which should have happened this week until after the Nato Summit

http://www.timescolonist.com/release...mit-1.19918688

Kind of inappropriate to go to a meeting where everyone else has done their homework, and Canada's basically saying a dog ate theirs.

This makes me believe that this is going to be a defense policy heavy on blaming on the Conservatives and light on doing anything about it.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:03 AM   #534
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/libe...ment-1.4118606

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It is likely one of the reasons the Liberal government believes it must prepare the public for the risks of "modern peacekeeping."

......

But it will also prepare the public for peacekeeping missions that could cost lives.
No ####ing #### it costs lives. It always has cost lives.


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While justifying the absence of a decision in March, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said deploying troops is a not a move to be taken lightly, but also noted Canada has had "a difficult history in Africa as peacekeepers."

He was referring to the disastrous missions to both Somalia and Rwanda in the mid-1990s.
#### you Justin, #### you UN.

Somalia was not a Peacekeeping mission (this does not excuse the horrendous actions of some troops on that mission).


If the UN could demonstrate that it is quick reacting/decision making entity I might change my mind.
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:20 AM   #535
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This isn't going to be a peace keeping mission, its going to be an anti-terrorist/insurgency mission.

So how comfortable are people going to be when they see Canadian Trained African Troops with Canadian accompaniment kicking down doors and throwing families into the back of UN trucks to be hauled away for interrogation? For example.

Or how comfortable are they going to be when video comes home of some kid being shot as a terrorist suspect because that's what Canadians trained us to do some African Soldier will say.

Or the first time the UN fails to react in a Canadian security zone and we see mass casualties.

This is the modern reality that missions like this tend to be nasty and drawn out and bloody. You can't fight a war like this in a nice manner, its an all or nothing manner.



I tend to think that they're also fooling themselves when they say there will be lower casualties. Frankly the insurgents will up their operational tempo at the change over to Canadian Troops, kind of as a warning.

Once again though, this is pure selling, don't worry Canada, we'll put on the blue beret and do some training in a safe zone (cough troop accompaniment on patrols) all is good.
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:18 PM   #536
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For undercoverbrother, ref the burial of the Calgary Highlander remains in FRANCE (in vicinity of ARRAS):

(a) 19/20 August 2017 – CA Funeral Parties deploy;
(b) 21 August 2017 – Rehearsals;
(c) 22 August 2017 – Rehearsals;
(d) 23 August 2017 – Burial of unknown Soldier in Number 2 Cemetery CNVM. Calgary Highlanders Burial Party execute;
(a) 24 August 2017 – Two burials at Loos British Cemetery. Canadian Scottish Regiment and Black Watch execute;
(b) 25 August 2017 – Burial at Orchard Dump Cemetery. Calgary Highlanders execute;
(c) 26 August 2017 – Redeploy main Body; and

Regards...
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:48 PM   #537
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For undercoverbrother, ref the burial of the Calgary Highlander remains in FRANCE (in vicinity of ARRAS):

(a) 19/20 August 2017 – CA Funeral Parties deploy;
(b) 21 August 2017 – Rehearsals;
(c) 22 August 2017 – Rehearsals;
(d) 23 August 2017 – Burial of unknown Soldier in Number 2 Cemetery CNVM. Calgary Highlanders Burial Party execute;
(a) 24 August 2017 – Two burials at Loos British Cemetery. Canadian Scottish Regiment and Black Watch execute;
(b) 25 August 2017 – Burial at Orchard Dump Cemetery. Calgary Highlanders execute;
(c) 26 August 2017 – Redeploy main Body; and

Regards...
Thanks, sadly I can't go.

I am sure the boys will give him a proper send off.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:00 PM   #538
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Thanks, sadly I can't go.

I am sure the boys will give him a proper send off.
Here is a kind of a State of the Union for the Army right now:

The Canadian Scottish have indicated that they cannot fill all of their positions (10 or so) and are asking for help. I'm not even sure about the Highlanders. There is such a demand for instructors this summer that the majority of the full time staff at the Reserve units have been tasked to instruct from Wainwright to Gagetown. I'm not sure about the Scottish, but the Highlanders maybe have one guy left in the Armoury this summer.

The Army is broken right now. For each soldier 1 CMBG has deployed to Europe, there is one that can't deploy for medical or other reasons. I'm sure the other CMBGs are in the same boat.

Most of the Army schools are at 60-70% strength, which means raiding the Reserves for instructors.

All it takes is one overseas deployment (and the Latvia one isn't even that big) to throw a wrench into everything. Add floods in Eastern Canada and a possible call for assistance in BC and we have huge hurdles to get over.

Meanwhile, the Powers That Be still want a Dog and Pony show at the dopey Stampede Parade, Lacombe Days, KDays, Spruce Meadows, Shaw Charity Golf and I could go on.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:01 PM   #539
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Here is a kind of a State of the Union for the Army right now:

The Canadian Scottish have indicated that they cannot fill all of their positions (10 or so) and are asking for help. I'm not even sure about the Highlanders. There is such a demand for instructors this summer that the majority of the full time staff at the Reserve units have been tasked to instruct from Wainwright to Gagetown. I'm not sure about the Scottish, but the Highlanders maybe have one guy left in the Armoury this summer.

The Army is broken right now. For each soldier 1 CMBG has deployed to Europe, there is one that can't deploy for medical or other reasons. I'm sure the other CMBGs are in the same boat.

Most of the Army schools are at 60-70% strength, which means raiding the Reserves for instructors.

All it takes is one overseas deployment (and the Latvia one isn't even that big) to throw a wrench into everything. Add floods in Eastern Canada and a possible call for assistance in BC and we have huge hurdles to get over.

Meanwhile, the Powers That Be still want a Dog and Pony show at the dopey Stampede Parade, Lacombe Days, KDays, Spruce Meadows, Shaw Charity Golf and I could go on.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:11 PM   #540
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The more things change the more they stay the same.
There was a reason why Harper chose to whip out his CF-18's as Justin so eloquently put it. Because he knew that we would end up putting troops in Europe and Canada's Army couldn't handle a ground deployment in Iraq and in Europe and he felt that the upcoming Nato deployment in Europe was going to happen and be really important in terms of Canada's Nato reputation..

so he properly balanced it out with pure fighters for the ISIS fight and was able to reserve ground troops for Europe.

So when Trudeau deployed to Iraq with "Trainers" and now deployed to Latvia he put a lot of strain on a military that thanks to poor funding and falling morale can't support two medium sized deployments. Now Trudeau wants to triple down and is under a lot of pressure to impress his buddies at the UN with the Mali mission.

At the same time the suspicion is that the Liberals pushed the delivery of their defense strategy past the NATO summit because its a funding plan that nobody will be impressed with and the Liberals will be able to say "Look at us deploying in three spots without spending money, we're punching above our weight"

I mean really all we need is some kind of large scale deployment due to a natural disaster to really break things . . . oh what?
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