Edmonton is No Good Episode 4: New Rink, Same Stink

[CaptainCrunch]

Plus as well putting Lucic on the LTIR list doesn't allow the Oilers to remove his salary from the cap. It allows them to bring in another player to fill his spot so they're still basically counting his cap hit.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well until the NHL suspicious of Lucic going on asks to see all of the notes and examinations by the Oilers team physician and its peer renewed by NHL doctors and consultants and they realize that its cap circumvention and force Lucic back on the roster. Oh and file an ethical complaint against the Oilers team doctors for what is equivalent to fraud costing him his license.

All of these players that go on LTIR, that essentially require what is equivalent to a second opinion outside of the team doctor, and these area also reviewed by the NHL.


No doctor is going to basically perform a fraudulent act to put Lucic on that list.

The NHL won't allow it, the other 30 teams in the league will be calling the NHL the minute that Lucic goes on that list if his contract isn't expired.

So a disease he was diagnosed with years ago isn't ok, but becoming allergic to your equipment when your contract suddenly goes to $1 million is above board?

People may speculate that his disease may cause him to retire early or LTIR but no one knows for sure.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So a disease he was diagnosed with years ago isn't ok, but becoming allergic to your equipment when your contract suddenly goes to $1 million is above board?

People may speculate that his disease may cause him to retire early or LTIR but no one knows for sure.

My argument would be that this diagnosis for Lucic isn't a new thing and teams knew it will likely affect his career.

So there was never any risk with this contract since it came with a get out of jail free card, regardless of the length.

It's just slimy bull####, and to me the definition of cap circumvention.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My argument would be that this diagnosis for Lucic isn't a new thing and teams knew it will likely affect his career.

So there was never any risk with this contract since it came with a get out of jail free card, regardless of the length.

It's just slimy bull####, and to me the definition of cap circumvention.

The rules for these scenarios will have to be addressed in the next CBA as I think we'll see more and more "creative" examples in the years to come. What about younger players with a history of concussions? If you know of a prior history, will longer term deals with these players be extra risky because one more hit can end their career and you won't get cap relief since you knew it was a prior issue?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

The rules for these scenarios will have to be addressed in the next CBA as I think we'll see more and more "creative" examples in the years to come. What about younger players with a history of concussions? If you know of a prior history, will longer term deals with these players be extra risky because one more hit can end their career and you won't get cap relief since you knew it was a prior issue?

I don't have a solution, so I don't know. It would likely have to be a case by case basis.

But it just shows me that the risk to teams overpaying players on July 1 is mitigated because of this, especially if they are max length contracts. So there's actually greater risk for signing a middling player like Brouwer to a medium length, medium AAV contract, than signing Lucic to a max year, high AAV deal. That's just ludicrous.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So a disease he was diagnosed with years ago isn't ok, but becoming allergic to your equipment when your contract suddenly goes to $1 million is above board?

People may speculate that his disease may cause him to retire early or LTIR but no one knows for sure.

I'm pretty sure that the NHL probably took a look at the skin allergy with a fine tooth comb.

The bottom line is that Lucic will have to prove that he can't play and this isn't just a slimy method of getting the Oilers out of a tight spot.

I doubt that any doctor is going to preform what is equivalent to insurance fraud, they won't risk their license.

As well again, if Lucic goes on LTIR its not like the Oilers get a get out of jail free pass or cap reduction, Lucic still has his cap hit count against the cap. The Oilers basically will have to bring in a replacement for him but if that player is only making 2 million dollars, it doesn't matter its the 6 million towards the cap that counts.

[CaptainCrunch]

Simple players that go on the LTIR on a permanent basis have to be put on by NHL doctors not team doctors.

And they have to be run through the back to play protocal. They can't retire until either the doctor clears them and they retire, or his contract expires.

At the same time the same system works.

Lets say Lucic goes on with his 6 million dollar hit. The Oilers can designate a player as his replacement and that players cap hit pretty much becomes irrelevant if its below Lucic value. The figure that goes towards the cap as long as Lucic is on LTIR is the cap hit of his contract or the replacement cap hit of the player whichever is greater.

So they would have to bring in a player of the same position and designate him as Lucic's replacement and his hit on the cap is a minimum of 6 million dollars.

[nik-]

Can we just stop and devote some more appreciation to the fact that we're (including an Oiler fan) having a semi-serious discussion about using Lucic's condition to nullify his cap hit before the second year of it has even started?

Hilarious.

[SuperMatt18]

The other kicker here is that Hossa actually doesn't want to play.

Lucic doesn't strike me as the type of guy that will just say "Okay I'll go on LTIR so you can save cap space because of a pre-existing condition".

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The other kicker here is that Hossa actually doesn't want to play.

Lucic doesn't strike me as the type of guy that will just say "Okay I'll go on LTIR so you can save cap space because of a pre-existing condition".

His contract also isn't nearly as front-loaded as Hossa's, so I have to imagine every year (at least for now) is insured.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The other kicker here is that Hossa actually doesn't want to play.

Lucic doesn't strike me as the type of guy that will just say "Okay I'll go on LTIR so you can save cap space because of a pre-existing condition".

I agree. That only occurs if he physically can't play anymore.

[Rejean31]

Benoit Pouliot being bought out by the Oilers this morning.

[CaptainCrunch]

Lets totally sign that guy

[Rejean31]

As per poster at HF.

Peter Chiarelli's style of cap management.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Lets totally sign that guy

NSFW!

Like that?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

As per poster at HF.

Peter Chiarelli's style of cap management.

Further to this

Chiarelli negotiating::

[CaptainCrunch]

yeah but they knew going into this that Chia was terrible at contracts, and now he's sub par at trades.

So his big thing is drafting and developing players, but that's yet to be seen.

Chia might have been the right name to get McDavid signed, but he might not be the right GM going forward.

[CaptainCrunch]

Hopefully this means that Chia is going to panic with the cap situation look at his window and go holy frank we have to win it all this year.

Dennis Wideman come on down

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Hopefully this means that Chia is going to panic with the cap situation look at his window and go holy frank we have to win it all this year.

Dennis Wideman come on down

A poster at HF did add a rumour report about a week ago that the Oilers had contacted Wideman. This would be great.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A poster at HF did add a rumour report about a week ago that the Oilers had contacted Wideman. This would be great.

Wasn't this also reported on Twitter by the guy who broke Foo to Calgary, the Hamonic deal, etc.

I'd laugh him off a week ago. But now? Not so much.