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Old 01-04-2017, 10:39 AM   #5861
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Can I please ask you a serious question?

I am a father of 2 and my wife and I both have full time jobs. I am also from Calgary where it can be a bit cold sometimes as you are aware.

I am trying not be partisan, but I am really curious as
to how I am supposed to change my behavior due to the carbon tax.

Am I supposed to now take public transit with my daughter in her car seat and drop her to day care on the LRT and then take the bus to work from her day care?

Am I supposed to grow my own food in the backyard because apples and oranges are imported and their transportation requires carbon emissions? I can’t grow my own carrots and tomatoes on January 4th.

Am I not supposed to heat my home? How many sweaters can I force upon my wife and kids? Will turning off the lights for a few extra minutes during the day really make a difference?

The economic theory makes complete sense, but how am I really supposed to alter my behavior?

Even if the carbon tax went to $100/ton or $200/ton, what can you really do?
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:44 AM   #5862
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Even if the carbon tax went to $100/ton or $200/ton, what can you really do?
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:02 AM   #5863
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:06 AM   #5864
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I've made a few changes to my lifestyle, not because of the carbon tax per se as I was trying to reduce my footprint before the tax but it worked well for me for the last couple of years.

I can't afford triple pane windows so I've taken to buying the $5 plastic sheets from Canadian tire to put over my windows.

I've dropped the heat from 23 to 20 degrees, not sweater temps but it has made a difference.

Yes lights are turned off whenever a room is left but I also have a spare room which I shut the vents and close the door when it isn't needed. You can even take it more extreme and do it for all bedrooms and only open the vents right before bed.

I've changed my car's autostart from 15 to 5 mins and even though I never really did it I convinced (along with the carbon tax) my friends to not leave their trucks running while they run into the store "for just 5 mins".

These all seem like little things that don't matter, but it all adds up.
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:23 AM   #5865
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Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan View Post
I am trying not be partisan, but I am really curious as to how I am supposed to change my behavior due to the carbon tax.
You're supposed to make purchasing and lifestyle changes to reflect price changes (as are the suppliers of those goods and services).

Say you want to go get your hair cut... because you want to use less gas because it's more expensive you go to that barber that's closer to home (or work) so that you don't have to drive as far. Time to get a new car? Maybe you decide to buy a hybrid or other more fuel efficient vehicle then the one you currently possess. Find it a bit chilly at home? Maybe instead of cranking up the heat you wear slightly warmer clothes instead. Those goods that required a long bit of freight? Maybe you buy an alternative that doesn't have as much (and by consequence doesn't pass as much of it's own cost increase on to you). Need a new furnace? Maybe you pick a version that has better fuel efficiency so you don't spend as much.

It's not a case of you doing one big thing that makes up the difference all by itself it's a thousand small choices that you make.
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:28 AM   #5866
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The answer would be small changes mostly. Many of these might not work for you, but they all can make some difference:
- Get a smaller car next time, not a bigger one. European families somehow make due with smaller cars than the beasts we drive. If you "need" a big vehicle for only a few times a year, look into the economics of renting one for just those occasions.
- Drive less aggressively with fewer stops/starts.
- Take a look at your weatherstripping/windows/doors/chimney flues for drafts. Some of those fixes are relatively simple (a $20 can of expanding foam around door jamb/window sill after pulling trim, or insulation in the chimney flue).
- Make your city trips shorter or multi-stop (don't go to the farther, marginally better theater for a movie, etc. - by way of analogy, we went across town to Southland Leisure Center for swimming with the kids over the holidays, it ended up being too busy so we went to Shouldice, which is 5 min from my house and the kids had just as much fun)
- Vacation closer to home rather than farther from home.
- Get a digital thermostat ($50) and program it to have the house be cooler at night and when you're not home during the day.
- Bike commute in the summer (or partially commute from one of the park and bike locations).
- Take shorter showers or shower with a friend :-)

What will happen without your input is by pricing carbon emissions:

- Our electricity mix will become less carbon intensive (because the price will go up in the short term, making those alternatives more attractive, which will eventually lower those prices).
- New products will be made to use less power (this is already happening)
- New houses/furnaces/hot water heaters/windows will be built to be more efficient (also happening). As those need replacing, pick the more efficient option.
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Old 01-04-2017, 11:43 AM   #5867
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Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan View Post
Can I please ask you a serious question?

I am a father of 2 and my wife and I both have full time jobs. I am also from Calgary where it can be a bit cold sometimes as you are aware.

I am trying not be partisan, but I am really curious as
to how I am supposed to change my behavior due to the carbon tax.

Am I supposed to now take public transit with my daughter in her car seat and drop her to day care on the LRT and then take the bus to work from her day care?

Am I supposed to grow my own food in the backyard because apples and oranges are imported and their transportation requires carbon emissions? I can’t grow my own carrots and tomatoes on January 4th.

Am I not supposed to heat my home? How many sweaters can I force upon my wife and kids? Will turning off the lights for a few extra minutes during the day really make a difference?

The economic theory makes complete sense, but how am I really supposed to alter my behavior?

Even if the carbon tax went to $100/ton or $200/ton, what can you really do?
In theory a carbon tax should be revenue neutral with the goal of shifting behaviours to less carbon taxed alternatives. So in theory your total cost of living wouldn't change and overtime you would drive less, turn down heat, upgrade furnaces earlier and do a whole bunch of small things because they made economic sense. The problem with this implementation is that it is both a carbon tax designed to shift behaviours and a PST. So all you see is a tax increase as opposed to lower personal and business taxes combined with increased costs for carbon intensive things
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:37 PM   #5868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan View Post
Can I please ask you a serious question?

I am a father of 2 and my wife and I both have full time jobs. I am also from Calgary where it can be a bit cold sometimes as you are aware.

I am trying not be partisan, but I am really curious as
to how I am supposed to change my behavior due to the carbon tax.

Am I supposed to now take public transit with my daughter in her car seat and drop her to day care on the LRT and then take the bus to work from her day care?

Am I supposed to grow my own food in the backyard because apples and oranges are imported and their transportation requires carbon emissions? I can’t grow my own carrots and tomatoes on January 4th.

Am I not supposed to heat my home? How many sweaters can I force upon my wife and kids? Will turning off the lights for a few extra minutes during the day really make a difference?

The economic theory makes complete sense, but how am I really supposed to alter my behavior?

Even if the carbon tax went to $100/ton or $200/ton, what can you really do?
Rachel Notley thinks you should walk.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:44 PM   #5869
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The carbon tax will be reflected in prices so you should just continue to make decisions on prices as always. The comparable goods that require more carbon to produce will cost more, so your supplier will need to charge more for them. So if you differentiate based on price, you will buy the cheaper (and also less carbon intensive) item.

Of course, since the comparable good will be much cheaper if produced in a jurisdiction without a carbon tax, it will be cheapest. So what I am doing is to continue to buy goods from the other side of the world.
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:51 PM   #5870
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ster-1.3919777

"On Monday, MacIntyre, the Wildrose critic for renewables and electricity, said the science isn't settled on climate change

"Climate change is real … it is cyclical, man is aggravating it. Man is not the sole cause, " MacIntyre said.

When a journalist challenged MacIntryre by noting the majority of scientists say humans are the main cause, MacIntyre replied, "You can't say that anymore … the science isn't settled.""
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Old 01-04-2017, 12:54 PM   #5871
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"You can't say that anymore because I said it's not settled. Didn't you hear what I said?"

Idiots. Why can't people just admit we're destroying the planet? I mean, the evidence is there and the motivation for putting about it is pretty ridiculous
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:26 PM   #5872
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Originally Posted by belsarius View Post
I've made a few changes to my lifestyle, not because of the carbon tax per se as I was trying to reduce my footprint before the tax but it worked well for me for the last couple of years.

I can't afford triple pane windows so I've taken to buying the $5 plastic sheets from Canadian tire to put over my windows.

I've dropped the heat from 23 to 20 degrees, not sweater temps but it has made a difference.

Yes lights are turned off whenever a room is left but I also have a spare room which I shut the vents and close the door when it isn't needed. You can even take it more extreme and do it for all bedrooms and only open the vents right before bed.

I've changed my car's autostart from 15 to 5 mins and even though I never really did it I convinced (along with the carbon tax) my friends to not leave their trucks running while they run into the store "for just 5 mins".

These all seem like little things that don't matter, but it all adds up.
Holy hell dude.

23 degrees? 20 Degrees?

Turning off lights in unused rooms? Closing vents to unused rooms?

15 minutes of idling to warm up? How far are you going?

No wonder you're all for the Carbon tax and the NDP, you're starting from the lap of luxury and taking some minor steps down.

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"You can't say that anymore because I said it's not settled. Didn't you hear what I said?"

Idiots. Why can't people just admit we're destroying the planet? I mean, the evidence is there and the motivation for putting about it is pretty ridiculous
Sorry, and this is going to sound harsh, but you sound like the PETA self-extinctionist extremists.

The only way to save the animals and the planet is to remove us from it.

Are you going to be the first person to take a knife to your kid? Its the only sure-fire way to save the planet, otherwise they're going to consume more resources than they supply.

Pitter patter.
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:31 PM   #5873
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Of course, since the comparable good will be much cheaper if produced in a jurisdiction without a carbon tax, it will be cheapest. So what I am doing is to continue to buy goods from the other side of the world.
You will of course lose significantly more if you were to do that then you would from the carbon tax in shipping and handling changes along with time value from delivery delay.
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:51 PM   #5874
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Holy hell dude.

23 degrees? 20 Degrees?

Turning off lights in unused rooms? Closing vents to unused rooms?

15 minutes of idling to warm up? How far are you going?

No wonder you're all for the Carbon tax and the NDP, you're starting from the lap of luxury and taking some minor steps down.
The lap of luxury? What are you even talking about. Sheesh go back to yelling at clouds.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:22 PM   #5875
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The lap of luxury? What are you even talking about. Sheesh go back to yelling at clouds.
Essentially, he's saying that all of the "adjustments" you're making are things that the vast majority of us already did prior to the Carbon Tax from being implemented. You had room to make adjustments... the rest of us? Not so much.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:26 PM   #5876
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Essentially, he's saying that all of the "adjustments" you're making are things that the vast majority of us already did prior to the Carbon Tax from being implemented. You had room to make adjustments... the rest of us? Not so much.
Oh yeah? and if he had any reading comprehension he could see I said I did these things years ago.

Quote:
I've made a few changes to my lifestyle, not because of the carbon tax per se as I was trying to reduce my footprint before the tax but it worked well for me for the last couple of years.
The question was what kind of things can you do so I answered it. He just has an insatiable need to make snide remarks against anyone who sees things in anything less than blue tinged conservative glasses.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:33 PM   #5877
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You're supposed to make purchasing and lifestyle changes to reflect price changes (as are the suppliers of those goods and services).

Say you want to go get your hair cut... because you want to use less gas because it's more expensive you go to that barber that's closer to home (or work) so that you don't have to drive as far. Time to get a new car? Maybe you decide to buy a hybrid or other more fuel efficient vehicle then the one you currently possess. Find it a bit chilly at home? Maybe instead of cranking up the heat you wear slightly warmer clothes instead. Those goods that required a long bit of freight? Maybe you buy an alternative that doesn't have as much (and by consequence doesn't pass as much of it's own cost increase on to you). Need a new furnace? Maybe you pick a version that has better fuel efficiency so you don't spend as much.

It's not a case of you doing one big thing that makes up the difference all by itself it's a thousand small choices that you make.
The majority of your suggestions - while all good and desirable - are beyond the means of the poor and most of the middle class. The poor actually profit under this scheme by doing nothing. Which, obviously, disincentivizes making change.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:48 PM   #5878
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The majority of your suggestions - while all good and desirable - are beyond the means of the poor and most of the middle class.
Those aren't suggestions... they're examples.

Like I said it's composed of many many many different choices that have a cumulative effect. Carbon intensive products are going to become more expensive thereby providing an incentive to purchase (and by extension produce) less carbon intensive products. This applies to all people regardless of the level of economic comfort they have.

And really... the only examples I used that were perhaps beyond the means of the poor and most of the middle class was maybe buying the hybrid (which was really just a proxy way of saying if you buy a car chose the option with the better fuel efficiency) and the furnace (same except for home owners).

Last edited by Parallex; 01-04-2017 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 01-04-2017, 02:51 PM   #5879
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Those aren't suggestions... they're examples.

Like I said it's composed of many many many different choices that have a cumulative effect. Carbon intensive products are going to become more expensive thereby providing an incentive to purchase (and by extension produce) less carbon intensive products. This applies to all people regardless of the level of economic comfort they have.
Only those produced in Alberta. We will still be able to buy the same crap from anywhere else, probably at a cheaper price because they weren't forced to pay a tax. It's basically punishment for creating jobs in Alberta.
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