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Old 12-21-2014, 10:47 AM   #21
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Oh no. Fleury is proud of what are, frankly, amazing accomplishments in a league where he was drafted in the 8th round and never projected to make it because of his size. HOW DARE HE!

Seriously, why are we so adverse to pride and confidence. If anyone has earned the right to exude those attributes, it's Fleury.

Retire his number ASAP.
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:58 AM   #22
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Agree he should be in the hall as that should be a numbers game. But a team has every right to select who they think exemplifies what it means to be immortalized in their rafters. If you continually badmouth and disrespect the hand that helped you then don't expect to be bestowed such an honor.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:12 AM   #23
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No other way to say this lightly the Flames ownership are A-holes when it comes to NOT retiring Fleury's number.
Has a guy done more to put his private life on display and rebuild it.
On public site like CP we don't even share our names because of privacy.
This guy allows a book to be written and shares all his skeletons, opens up a very personal tragic court case. And people want to ridicule him over what he did away from hockey??? Wtf
It is an absolute joke total strangers on the local news that are former thieves, drug dealers, hookers, skumbags etc get more respect for picking up the pieces.

Fleury has done everything the Flames have asked him to do for "their alumni pr". So where is the return thanks. There is none.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chedder View Post
If you continually badmouth and disrespect the hand that helped you then don't expect to be bestowed such an honor.
An organization that bent over backwards to keep him on the straight and narrow during his playing days (at least his issues weren't wide open in the public). Look what happened as soon as he went to NY and Chicago for a couple years and didn't have that "protection" from himself for the first time in 10+ years.

Then, an organization who again went to the lengths (when they didn't have to) of vouching for him to the commissioner to re-instate him, simply so that for Fleury selfishly himself, get that NHL pension that he couldn't while still suspended.

How does Fleury thank the organization a few months later? Bad mouths Conroy and the team in a blog and says that he could've done better.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:23 AM   #25
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Personal anecdote time and the perfect comparison as to why Lanny is in the rafters and Theo is not.

I have run into Lanny MANY MANY times as I live close to him and frequent many of the same establishments (Registry, supermarket ect) and he ALWAYS stops to talk with me. Further he remembers my name and has initiated conversations with me. Just a bloody nice guy all the way around.

I've run into Theo three times and all three times he was belligerent, abrasive and very "Don't you know who I am?" All three interactions with him left me in a foul mood for a few hours afterwards.

To me this just typifies both men in the way they approach life and it's pretty obvious why Lanny is so revered and Theo is not.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:37 AM   #26
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I made this post about a year ago when this topic came up.

For me as a flames fan, I am absolutely embarrassed that his name and number aren't in the rafters, simply because he didn't kiss enough ass and shine enough turds. Fleury played on the edge, his personality is what made him successful in the NHL.

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Can I also be the first one to say that who the eff cares what Theo was like, especially after the flames. While he was with the team he was the most prolific and important player to the franchise until Iginla and Kipper arrived.

Fleury should be retired and in the hall of fame based on what he did on the ice. He's top 60all time in points.

He has more goals than Doug Gilmore, Pavel Bure, Alex Kovalev, Owen Nolan, Brian Propp. Theo has more assists than Mike Gartner, Glenn Anderson, Alex Kovalev, Paul Kariya, Jarome Iginla, Frank Mahovlich, Martin St. Louis, and Joe Nieuwendyk.

29th all=time playoff points per game, last appearance in the playoffs scoring 17 points in 18 games, losing in the conference final in 7 games to the eventual Cup winning Dallas Stars.

Theo is 49th all-time in Points Per Game. Ahead of Mats Sundin who just got in as a first ballot hall of famer.

All Bolded are Hall of Famers.

Five international appearances for Canada in major tournaments, 1 Olympic Gold Medal as a significant contributor. He was integral in that 2002 Gold Medal.

Theo was never my favourite player, I wasn't terribly broken up when he was traded, but when he kept himself together on the ice, I enjoyed his game. He is not in the upper tier of the hall, but, he is at the top of the list of the next tier. In my opinion, the off-ice issues serve to bolster his hall credentials rather than draw from them, much like his size.

He should be in, The Hall and The Rafters.
1000 games played, 1000 points, 1800 PIMs.

That's the gold standard for the hall of fame and should be a shoe-in for number retirement.

Last edited by Flash Walken; 12-21-2014 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:43 AM   #27
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Message to KKing and the Flames ownership...
''let he who is without sin among you cast the first stone''
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:44 AM   #28
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I'd love to see a poll on this topic. Who actually thinks his number should not be retired?
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:45 AM   #29
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You can't say Fleury should not be up there yet be supportive that Nieuwendyk is.
Nieuwendyk absolutely sold us down a river with his demands yet he still gets recognized. I am ok with that though because when he was here he did a lot for the team and that is what it is about. Same with Gilmour, he was a key part of this team. Same with Roberts. Fleury is arguably the greatest Flame ever. So what if he backlashed the Flames on cutting him after his tryout, he was right, he should have made the team given his performance. The Flames wasted an absolute great PR/marketing chance there as well.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:45 AM   #30
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The Flames don't need to recognize Fleury. If you're ever not sure about Fleury's contributions, just ask him. He'll set the record straight.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:49 AM   #31
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The Flames don't need to recognize Fleury. If you're ever not sure about Fleury's contributions, just ask him. He'll set the record straight.
What is your point? So he likes to brag about his accomplishments, I would too if I had accomplished in hockey what he has. If you walked the walk you can talk the talk.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:50 AM   #32
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My point is that Fleury has the recognition he wants. If the Flames aren't interested in anything more formal and Fleury isn't either, then it's a non issue.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:01 PM   #33
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So what if he backlashed the Flames on cutting him after his tryout, he was right, he should have made the team given his performance. The Flames wasted an absolute great PR/marketing chance there as well.
That's hardly the only reason....the owners that were around before he was a Flame and are still here, are the ones who have to make that decision to recognize a player in such a permanent and public manner.

They know all about all the crap, stress and grief that Fluery gave them week in and week out, year in and year out while he was here (97% we'll never know about - again, look what happened when he left here). All the situations he was in that the owners got him out of. All the tirades, all the personal attacks on the team, other players, coaches, management and maybe on themselves personally that IMO have no doubt occured as part of his addiction problems and partly because of his entitlement issues. His snapping and bad mouthing the organization (behind closed doors and out in the public) when he left to go to Colorado. Also, the owners and King probably continue to hear from him asking for this and that, including constantly asking about them retiring his number.

Numbers don't lie, but there are enough people still in the organization that know that everything else Fleury put the organization through behind closed doors through the 90's, and continues to do so, that supercedes those on ice stats. And that's the organization's perrogative to make that call.

Last edited by browna; 12-21-2014 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:12 PM   #34
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Can we just retire his goddamn number so we don't have to have this conversation every year?
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:31 PM   #35
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Maybe the Flames already offered to recognize Theo as a "Forever a Flame" since the team is not retiring numbers anymore.

Maybe Theo rejected the offer because he wants his number retired.

I am just speculating.

I don't think Theo is ready for the honor.
Maybe in 10 years.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:54 PM   #36
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I've met him twice. First time was when I was 15 and asked him to sign my Fleury jersey. He was nothing but polite and gracious. He signed my jersey, and even chatted with me for a couple of minutes. The 2nd time was at a wedding I was bartending a few years later (summer 2000 if I remember correctly) Again, I thought he was a really nice dude, and nothing like the arrogant d-bag everyone always makes him out to be.

But judging from other people's encounters with him on this forum, it's clear that the guy has some kind of split personality/ Jeckyl & hyde persona. Sometimes he's a really nice guy, other times not. I can only assume that this stems from the horrific things he's gone through over the years. Who knows? Either way, I agree with the OP. The Flames should either retire his number, or even do the "forever a Flame" thing. You can't ignore what he did for this franchise when he was playing.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:56 PM   #37
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Was my favourite player growing up. He was indeed very good at hockey and a valuable part of the team for many years, which is what's probably more important here.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:10 PM   #38
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Fleury was a great hockey player but far from a saint. He should be in the HoF but to have him as an ambassador and a face for this team would be a mistake. I don't want this team to be represented by a guy who has the sense of entitlement he does no matter his accomplishments.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:14 PM   #39
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[QUOTE=dissentowner;5059868]You can't say Fleury should not be up there yet be supportive that Nieuwendyk is.
Nieuwendyk absolutely sold us down a river with his demands yet he still gets recognized. I am ok with that though because when he was here he did a lot for the team and that is what it is about. Same with Gilmour, he was a key part of this team. Same with Roberts. Fleury is arguably the greatest Flame ever. So what if he backlashed the Flames on cutting him after his tryout, he was right, he should have made the team given his performance. The Flames wasted an absolute great PR/marketing chance there as well.[/QUOTE]

Lord help us if the Flames start making roster decisions because of great PR opportunities.
Fleury scored a couple of goals but it was also crystal clear he couldn't keep up with the speed of the NHL.
The reason he didn't make the roster is he wasn't good enough.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
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This guy allows a book to be written and shares all his skeletons,
That's not really how it works. He chose to have a book written, had control over the content, and got paid for it.

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Fleury has done everything the Flames have asked him to do for "their alumni pr". So where is the return thanks. There is none.
How do you figure that? The last "PR" thing he did for the Flames was talk about how he was better than the rookie sensation and say "I don't think I get enough credit for how I great I was..." in the process. Not exactly how you win friends and influence people.

I don't think anyone can argue that his performance on the ice warrants a retired jersey and the HoF, but obviously there is more to it than that, because neither the NHL or the Flames have done it.
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