[Game Takes] Vancouver 3 Flames 2 (OT)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by pacde

I cant answer that question because its not been my job but to think there isnt a pretty highly standardized answer to that question seems improbable.

As I said, Ive done some scorekeeping in minor hockey and mistakes are made, you miss things, sometimes something happens and you dont see it. It could be that you think something happened that didnt but that is way more unlikely and there are people around to help you if you have a question (like refs). Its way more likely that you miss something than you see things happen that didnt. Way more likely that you miss a takeaway than you see a takeaway that didnt happen.

On the other hand, this should be fairly simple to prove out if we compare the average reported giveaways/takeaways of teams at the dome as compared to the other buildings... again going on the very tenuous assumption that this is done by a person or couple persons living in the city and attending the games - I just dont think thats the case but I could be wrong.

Of course there is a league standard, but think about what we're talking about here. This isn't baseball where a strike out is a strike out.

Let's say the standard is that it has to be a direct change in possession from one team to the other. Now let's say a player passes to a teammate but the puck bounces over their stick and goes to an opposing player. Is that direct? Some would say yes some would say no. How close does it have to miss by to be a yes?

[Enoch Root]

Think about suspendable hits: it is almost impossible to get consensus on whether initial contact was to the head - and I can't imagine a more cut and dry situation in hockey (single, isolated act).

Whether or not a play is a direct giveaway is extremely subjective, even assuming standards, because the fact of the matter is that there are never two plays exactly the same in hockey.

[pacde]

Yeah, I understand what you are saying and there its possible that there is some discrepancy because of definition - just questions I cant answer and maybe someone else can.

I'm still skeptical that someone would over-report a stat like that for an extended period of time in one location but what do I really know? not much

The more I think I know the less it ends up being the case. Now if we could get a connection to that data so we know the breakdown on a game by game basis, we might be able to answer a lot of these questions

[Enoch Root]

Ran some numbers and it is really bizarre...

Teams seem to mostly all have more giveaways AND more takeaways at home than away. What that tells me is that the 'scorekeeper' is probably watching the home team more than they are watching the opponent.

The average GvA and TkA for home and away are:

GvA: 159, 113
TkA: 127, 96

For the Flames, the numbers are:

GvA: 245, 120
TkA: 215, 64

There could be a lot of reasons for the discrepancies, but either the Flames are a COMPLETELY different team at home, or the stats are less than reliable.

I find it hard to believe that the Flames execute 3.5X as many takeaways at home as on the road. Or that they give the puck away twice as much at home as on the road.

[Enoch Root]

And here are the numbers for Toronto:

GvA: 256, 61
TkA: 300, 78

So the Leafs commit 4X as many GvAs and TkAs at home.

Yeah, that seems reasonable

[Save Us Sutter]

Thanks for doing the grunt work. Always wondered about those numbers myself and they are even more out of whack then I suspected.

I would agree that this is likely do to "watching" the home team more. Perhaps separate home and away score keepers could help even those numbers out? No idea, but I would imagine this is fairly consistent among a lot of other stats and it sure makes player comparisons difficult to really put 100% faith in.