2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Ryan Coke]

I am ambivalent to Johnson returning, but he did actually take the starting job away from Elliott. He took the job away, and Elliott stayed bad. Eventually Johnson's play slipped, and Elliott was still bad. Then they were both bad, until finally Elliott got on a roll.

So Elliott being pushed didn't help him perform better, he stayed bad for 2/3 of the season.

Elliott is a proven goaltender....he has proven he can't be relied upon to provide any level of consistent, quality play, regardless of his backup. There is no reason for him to return.

I would be fine if Johnson came back as a backup to a solid #1, but there may be other better options as well.

I am starting to really think a 1 or 2 year deal for Miller (if he would come here) then maybe one of the younger 'potential' guys (Rantaa, Grubauer, Condon, Pickard). Unfortunately not a long term solid starter solution, but Miller looks to still have some good game left, the younger on-the-cusp guy to push, then in a year or 2 you see where that guys play is as well as our prospects development and decide on a path forward from there.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

If the Flames re-sign Elliot, they clearly aren't serious about going deep in the playoffs and content with players developing more. With that said, sign Elliott to a 2 years deal but make sure Gillies or Rittich are the Backup so they have a chance at taking the starting job or proving they aren't starter material anytime soon.

But they have got to find another goalie coach.

If they sign him to a 1 year 2mil deal to back up then its not terrible i guesd

[Robbob]

Elliot is as much of a stop gap as Smith, Mason, Miller, etc. The only benefit I can see is money saved bringing Elliot back gives them an opportunity to throw a little more at a top line winger. At this point you could probably get both Johnson and Elliott for around 5M.

[Bleeding Red]

Elliot back to CGY is a lose-lose-lose for everyone.
Triliving loses all the political good-will piled up over the last 2 seasons (he will forever be known as the guy who couldn't get a goalie)
Flames management & owners lose credibility when they all say "we are building a contender"
Players lose out on a "move forward" year and stagnate, or want out, or play selfish....
Fans lose hope that the team is moving in the right direction - this time they know the train wreck is here from the outset.

If they want to keep up the "building" & "Future" & "forward" *& "earned" monikers, then they have to throw one of the young goalies to the wolves - Rittich, Gillies, McDonald, Schnider - even if it is only for one year.

If they want to keep up the "playoff team" & "better team, just bad luck" & "one or two more pieces and we're contender" cliches, then they need to go and get solid guy with at least a close to proven track record - over 60 NHL games.

All the money in the world for better up-front guys is wasted if stuck with less than mediocre goal tending - See Dallas Stars. Would an extra $4 mil d-man make either Niemi or Letohnen better - If anyone thought that, then we would still be talking about Bishop.

[Erick Estrada]

The Flames did manage to make the playoffs with a Johnson/Elliott tandem so while they were both spotty at times they were good enough to get the Flames into the playoffs. I personally think Elliott would be better in year two so if he's the best option I can live with that short term. Johnson I'm not so sure of as I don't know if teams had found something on him but he was getting torched on his glove hand side and I would be fine with going younger at the backup position.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Friedman now speculating Flames may stick with Elliott and Johnson for another year.

Also mentioned Condon as a possibility.

Said that after he suggested Saros last week, he got a message from someone that told him there is no way Polie moves Saros right now.

Thinks MAF will end up in Vegas.

Also suggested that Raanta is no better than Elliott or Johnson when Pinder brought him up.

Now bringing up Bernier as a possibility.

Friedman has lots of thoughts but most don't ever come to fruition. Wasn't this the same guy who said Tre would not be back?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I just don't get the speculation that MAF is vegas bound? There is no way they have talked to him about it durring the playoffs. I can't see him at his age wanting to go there , when making the playoffs in the next 3 years seems improbable.

This is just speculation on my part, but it's possible that Rutherford made an agreement with Fleury to not trade him during the season if Fleury agreed to waive his NMC for the Expansion Draft.

If given that choice, it's possible that Fleury decided that one last chance for a Cup run in Pittsburgh was worth it. He has two years left on his contract, so he could go play a year and a half in Vegas and then get traded to a playoff team at the deadline in 2019.


Think about that choice from Fleury's perspective: If he gets traded, it's likely to a team that has a low chance of developing into a contender before 2019. If he stays in Pittsburgh and gets taken by Vegas, he has a high chance of winning the Cup in 2017, no chance in 2018, and a low chance in 2019 if he gets traded to a low-rank playoff team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The Flames did manage to make the playoffs with a Johnson/Elliott tandem so while they were both spotty at times they were good enough to get the Flames into the playoffs. I personally think Elliott would be better in year two so if he's the best option I can live with that short term. Johnson I'm not so sure of as I don't know if teams had found something on him but he was getting torched on his glove hand side and I would be fine with going younger at the backup position.

The same claim could have been made in 2015 when the Hiller/Ramo combo got the team to the playoffs with fairly decent goaltending but then they fell off a cliff in year 2 as a tandem. Tough to say a 32 year old Elliott and 31 year old Johnson will improve in year 2. Not a risk I want the Flames to make

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by getbak

This is just speculation on my part, but it's possible that Rutherford made an agreement with Fleury to not trade him during the season if Fleury agreed to waive his NMC for the Expansion Draft.

If given that choice, it's possible that Fleury decided that one last chance for a Cup run in Pittsburgh was worth it. He has two years left on his contract, so he could go play a year and a half in Vegas and then get traded to a playoff team at the deadline in 2019.


Think about that choice from Fleury's perspective: If he gets traded, it's likely to a team that has a low chance of developing into a contender before 2019. If he stays in Pittsburgh and gets taken by Vegas, he has a high chance of winning the Cup in 2017, no chance in 2018, and a low chance in 2019 if he gets traded to a low-rank playoff team.

But Fluery holds all the cards with a NMC? He can't be traded or selected by Vegas. Rutherford is completely at his mercy

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Friedman has lots of thoughts but most don't ever come to fruition. Wasn't this the same guy who said Tre would not be back?

No, that's not what he said.

Also, speculation made public that doesn't come to fruition doesn't mean it wasn't being discussed.

[indes]

I think at this point I would be pretty happy with a Pickard/Rittich tandem.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by indes

I think at this point I would be pretty happy with a Pickard/Rittich tandem.

A bad goalie with an unproven prospect as his back up?

[indes]

Originally Posted by jayswin

A bad goalie with an unproven prospect as his back up?

Pretty much. I think Pickard will be a solid #1 but that's probably why I don't have a cushy scouting gig

[Harry Lime]

Interesting the way these discussions have been going.

If you want to be relevant next year (and with the contracts of our core where they are, I think that they should), you need a goalie that is stable, but not spectacular. Just enough to keep the team in games on a consistent basis, and let the team as a whole carry the season.

Halak, Miller, Mason and MAF.

Any of the others being mentioned are really farts in the wind, hoping to accidentally land another Kipper. The best option is to have Rittich as a backup and let Gilles have a bulky season in Stockton.

Any of those four can be had on a two year deal that wouldn't break the bank and give you quality minutes. Rittich needs to see what he can do in Calgary, I don't think he needs more seasoning.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It's not age that prepares a goalie for the NHL, it's number of games of professional hockey played. Almost all NHL goalies had 100+ AHL starts before they stuck in the NHL. Even Murray, who was absolutely lights-out in the AHL, got 72 games. Gibson had 70. Saros was in net for 40+ games for each of two seasons in the Finnish Elite league, before playing 53 games in the AHL. Talbot played 116 games in the AHL. Pickard played 163.

Gillies has played 49 games of pro hockey. If he has a really strong first half of his season in the AHL next year, maybe you spot him in to 10 or 15 games in NHL in the last half of the season.

Gillies was playing in college at the same age most top goalie prospects are playing professionally in Europe or the AHL. Then he basically missed a season of development with his hip surgery. Next season is when he makes up those lost games.

Fair enough. I just don't tie AHL game experience to NHL success like you. Calgary has a bunch of pretty decent AHL goalies. My bottom line is I don't trust Johnson as a backup - he showed very little down the stretch when he got his opportunities. I'd be happy with MAF and a kid. I'm less happy with Elliott and a kid, but I think there's plenty of backups who are as good as Johnson.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

But Fluery holds all the cards with a NMC? He can't be traded or selected by Vegas. Rutherford is completely at his mercy

He doesn't hold all the cards because he has to submit a list of 18 teams he can be traded to. Even if he includes teams that aren't likely interested (like Montreal or Washington), that still gives Rutherford plenty of options.

[868904]

Originally Posted by getbak

He doesn't hold all the cards because he has to submit a list of 18 teams he can be traded to. Even if he includes teams that aren't likely interested (like Montreal or Washington), that still gives Rutherford plenty of options.

Yeah there are some moving parts, one of those 18 teams might see Fleury as an upgrade on what they have which might make another starter available.

For example, maybe Fleury is willing to go to Anaheim, which would make Gibson available. The Flames aren't the only team that is watching Fleury right now. Just because a team has a goalie, doesn't mean they aren't interested in upgrading, especially if the cost is low.

[FlamesAddiction]

I find it funny how a lot of people look at a goalie with terrible stats that plays on bad team and give that player the benefit of the doubt. But a goalie with decent personal stats on a good team is written off as a product of the good team.

Quite often, a team is exactly the product of its goaltending, or at least a big factor of their record is due to goaltending.

At this point, I would be willing to see the Flames roll the dice with someone like Raanta or Grubauer, but Elliot is probably only 3rd or 4th down my list. If we could get a wild card goalie like Raanta and sign Elliott to a decent short term deal for insurance, I think that would be a good thing to do.

[Poe969]

I don't get why anyone wants Elliot back. He's not a good goalie, he may have flashes of being good but he's a pretty average goalie. I would in all honesty give a younger unproven guy the starting position and hope he's actually good.

It's like the exact opposite of the whole "I'll take what's in the box, it could be anything even a boat" In this case, Elliot isn't a boat, he's more of a life jacket.

The goalie position is probably the most important position on the team, if you can't get a great goalie, try and get someone who might be great and don't settle for someone who you know isn't.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get why anyone wants Elliot back. He's not a good goalie, he may have flashes of being good but he's a pretty average goalie. I would in all honesty give a younger unproven guy the starting position and hope he's actually good.

It's like the exact opposite of the whole "I'll take what's in the box, it could be anything even a boat" In this case, Elliot isn't a boat, he's more of a life jacket.

The goalie position is probably the most important position on the team, if you can't get a great goalie, try and get someone who might be great and don't settle for someone who you know isn't.

I think he would be a good back-up or 1B for the right price/term, but I certainly wouldn't want him back with the expectations that he would play 50 or more games.