Ongoing Calgarians throwing things into the wrong bins thread

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by GGG

How is it better for the environment? In theory you reduce methane emissions by composting, if so price it in.

A landfill on its own, is not bad for the environment. We have lots of space to put stuff in landfills. Trucking costs increase as they get further away from the city and they are costly to run but there is nothing environmentally damaging about a landfill that is designed properly.

http://mie.esab.upc.es/ms/informacio...composting.pdf

Havent read this completely, just googled and read the summary but it states that it doesn't make economic sense to do it yet. Not sure how they factor environmental considerations.

A report from 1998 in the US?

Last time I was in Vegas they didn't even recycling bins for cans and bottles.

[photon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

All I care about are the practicalities. Presumably, you can't use bags in these things. So what do you scrape your food, etc, into? And I'll just throw dog crap directly into the green bin too, with no bag? Do these bins ever get cleaned?

A link to compostable bags was posted a bit ago. Some people don't use any bags and just hose out their bin every so often. I use compostable kitchen bags.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Simon96Taco

When is the whole city going to get these things?

Sometime in 2017.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Yeah we aren't going to agree on this topic. I'm willing to spend the $6.50 if it's better for the environment in the long run, regardless if it's cheaper or not.

On what grounds is it better for the environment?

I should add that I'm not inherently against doing it. I just want to see a decision record from the city showing the basis for this decision and that it is economicly justifiable based on whole lifecycle costs and the assumptions that went it to it.

[crazy_eoj]

Another city program that will be expensive, likely without easily tracked outcomes, and if it follows the examples of most other cities, unable to meet set targets for diversion or produced compost.

If you really wanted to help the environment, your money would be much better spent in other places. But hey, think about the headlines and all those city jobs.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by photon

A link to compostable bags was posted a bit ago. Some people don't use any bags and just hose out their bin every so often. I use compostable kitchen bags.

Gross. I'd definitely use compostable bags. Didn't even know they made those until this thread. I'm assuming tissue paper and cardboard are technically compostable too right? If I mix those in, shouldn't be an issue.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Another city program that will be expensive, likely without easily tracked outcomes, and if it follows the examples of most other cities, unable to meet set targets for diversion or produced compost.

If you really wanted to help the environment, your money would be much better spent in other places. But hey, think about the headlines and all those city jobs.

Yeah, and people like you (and quite a few others on this site) are part of the reason why.
You guys have decided that this isn't going to work and are unwilling to do the MINIMAL amount of effort to help make it work.

[Robbob]

We are a house hold of two and really don't generate enough waste to fill the black and blue each week. I can really only see myself using the green bin in the summer time though for yard waste and such. Although, it is good to hear that dog poop can go in the green bin so that is a relief for the summer.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, and people like you (and quite a few others on this site) are part of the reason why.

You guys have decided that this isn't going to work and are unwilling to do the MINIMAL amount of effort to help make it work.

Unwilling to try and questioning efficiencies are two different things. We're merely being pragmatic before jumping on the bandwagon.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by GGG

On what grounds is it better for the environment?

I should add that I'm not inherently against doing it. I just want to see a decision record from the city showing the basis for this decision and that it is economicly justifiable based on whole lifecycle costs and the assumptions that went it to it.

It's likely not much better for the environment today, but it will help down the road.

http://www.owma.org/Portals/2/Cover_...ber%202015.pdf

Once buried, organic wastes start decaying and generating methane in a

matter of days, and the decay process and its emissions continue for decades. This is why, in any given

year, the landfill gas methane emitted by Ontario landfills is almost all the result of waste that was

generated and landfilled in years gone by.

By 2013, the waste already deposited in Ontario’s landfills,

much of it organic, generated 12.3 million tonnes CO2eq of methane.

If no more organic waste were added to Ontario’s landfills, the methane emissions from the “waste-inplace”

would slowly subside, dropping by 50% about every 15 years. By 2030, pre-capture emissions

would be less than 6 Mt CO

2eq, and by 2050 emissions would be down to about 2 Mt CO2eq. However,

for the past ten years, landfill gas emissions have been fairly constant; there is enough fresh organic

material in the material landfilled every year in Ontario (about six million tonnes per year, some of

which is paper and organic waste) to offset the declining emissions from the older waste-in-place.

[ken0042]

Some of us who are "opposed" just have some questions. If something is better for the environment, then it may be worth doing for that reason. Personally, I'm just trying to be informed.

How does organic waste produce less methane when turned into compost; as opposed to degrading in the landfill? It seems like a similar process.

[GGG]

Now take the $6.50 we are paying and choose to put that to increased electricity cost from the phasing out of coal and which gives us better bang for our environmental dollar?

As I said above all I want is numbers to show this makes sense. Price Methane emissions how you want to and show that including emissions costs its a good deal. Also you need to consider the CO2 emitted from the composting process.

All I want is a lifecycle calc. This kind of information should be routinely available. Ken King should have done one for his Calgary Next proposal and the City should publish the one they likely did here.

[Wormius]

I just wish you could opt out and get some savings if you already compost.

I think the black bin pick up schedule change is a good incentive, but some financial reward would have been nice to start off with if you were willing to skip putting out your bin on a weekly basis. This method seems pretty cold turkey.

As for styrofoam. Can't you put that in the blue bins? I thought they just send it off to another facility. That was what I thought the city said.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Some of us who are "opposed" just have some questions. If something is better for the environment, then it may be worth doing for that reason. Personally, I'm just trying to be informed.

How does organic waste produce less methane when turned into compost; as opposed to degrading in the landfill? It seems like a similar process.

It has do with Oxygen not being present in a landfill decomposition. Composting with oxygen present produces CO2 whereas without the presence of oxygen you get CH4

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Wormius

As for styrofoam. Can't you put that in the blue bins? I thought they just send it off to another facility. That was what I thought the city said.

Nope- black bin.
http://www.calgary.ca/UEP/WRS/Pages/...rene-foam.aspx

I agree with earlier, that I probably put out more food waste than styrofoam. However I know the food waste will break down; the foam will not.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by photon

80-90% sounds right, depending on how much effort one puts in. Stuff like plastic food containers that normally would go in the garbage can be recycled if they're washed out first.

This is the problem I have. I think water is a more valuable resource than the recycled plastic from my yoghurt container. I have no problems with plastic going into a landfill as we have more than enough room for it. Glass and metals are worth recycling due to their high energy usage in their creation and paper/cardboard are worth recycling because of the lack of biodiversity in forestry replanting programs but with a properly lined landfill plastic just sits there and fills the space.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

You guys have decided that this isn't going to work and are unwilling to do the MINIMAL amount of effort to help make it work.

Because I'm being forced to pay for and do something I didn't ask for. A profit for the city. If they would of said, come pick up a green bin and help the environment I might of gotten two. And here's a smaller closed one you can put under your sink temporarily.

City cash grab yet again.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by surferguy

can sawdust go into a green bin?

Normal wood dust wood be fine, I'm not sure if they'd want all the chemicals in particle board and pressure treated wood since they compost and sell it. So I'd like to see a bin system in your shop, with separate vacuum dust collectors for each. There will be an inspection.

[Reaper]

The companion part is to capture the methane and use it for electrical power generation. I believe Edmonton captures enough methane to cover 4,600 homes or so.

[puckedoff]

At my house since I eat 100% red meat (bbq'd) and drink only Whiskey (bottles are recyclable) I really only throw out yard waste (grass clippings, leaves, dead squirrels). I don't see why my garbage should be sitting in with empty oil containers and other pollutants which don't allow my garbage to safely return to the earth.