1) This thread reads a lot better with Scottish Flame on Ignore. The debate about whether this guy fits within a definition of home grown terrorist can occur without broad brush strokes about all muslims. Just a suggestion.
2) Whether something like this was done in the name of another religion/political group/social agenda, I would still want it looked at as a form of home-grown-terrorism, regardless of what religion/political group/social agenda the person subscribed to. Violence against innocents to advance an agenda is part of the terrorism discussion.
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"OOOOOOHHHHHHH those Russians" - Boney M
The Following User Says Thank You to killer_carlson For This Useful Post:
I want you to provide evidence that there is an increase in the number of individuals "converting.....to this radical Islam".
How many Canadians went to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, and then the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan, and then now to fight with ISIS or in general in Syria. It's all anecdotal, but I don't think it's out of line to say there is a definite increase in this.
edit: for the record, I don't think this is anything to freak out about at all, because the numbers are still small, but there is an increase from all indications.
You are the one pushing that agenda. Either support your position of drop it.
Perhaps killer_carlson is correct.
So I'm not allowed to have my opinion without your approval? If you don't think there has been an increase in support for radical groups in western countries you must be living under a rock for the past 10 years
Ignoring the really ignorant posts and posters on here, I wanted to touch on a thought for a second.
As CC said, this new method of terrorism may be the most effective and scary yet, and that's precisely what ISIS had in mind when they talked about these small attacks both in their own literature and videos and the few statements they did put to the coalition countries in general.
However, in thinking about it for a little bit, I start to wonder if it really would be that effective. Follow me for a second.
If each attack kills on average one citizen (more on why I picked that number later), you're going to need one terrorist for pretty much every act that happens, This guy got killed in the attack. Most will. And those that don't will probably be caught and killed or jailed very quickly.
Is there really going to be that many terrorists, or more importantly, that many terrorists that have the ability and attitude to see it through? I wonder.
Don't get me wrong, even one death is too many. But at the end of the day, how many terrorists could there be to continually carry out small attacks. Also, how long will they stay motivated if not a whole lot is going on?
Now the reason why I picked one death per attack is there have already been attacks like these in other countries that haven't even succeeded in killing one. The recent attack near Melbourne Australia on the police officer comes to mind. While some attacks my kill more, some may not kill any. As well, some may get arrested even before launching an attack. In Canada I think we are a little safer than the US, just based on our gun laws.
Anyway, this is just me talking out loud, would love to hear thoughts on if it makes sense or not. If it does however, this is precisely how fear and overreacting would make things worse than they really are. Not only worse, but less safe. If we all keep our heads, stay vigilant but sane and positive, we defeat the whole point of 'terrorism', the terror. And discourage more attacks in the process.
So I'm not allowed to have my opinion without your approval? If you don't think there has been an increase in support for radical groups in western countries you must be living under a rock for the past 10 years
And why block me. You love our debates
You can have an opinion, just don't try to pass it off as fact.
There may be an increase, but by how much? Is it a substantial increase?
I don't have anyone on ignore, but I will be honest, your posts/opinions come across as narrowminded & sometimes hateful.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
You can have an opinion, just don't try to pass it off as fact.
There may be an increase, but by how much? Is it a substantial increase?
I don't have anyone on ignore, but I will be honest, your posts/opinions come across as narrowminded & sometimes hateful.
Any increase is substantial enough
I may come across that way especially when a situation like this occurs. I voice my opinion and I get blasted for hating a terrorist.
But the part that really pisses me off is that someone has killed an innocent man which is suspected to be a terrorist attack and people are like prove that he's a terrorist etc and seemingly no remorse for the people that got hit and killed they are more concentrated in replying to my posts.
Legitimately though, does anyone know how many Canadians went to fight the Russians in Afghanistan? I can't find any information or statistics on it. I'm guessing they didn't think about this type of thing back then.
I may come across that way especially when a situation like this occurs. I voice my opinion and I get blasted for hating a terrorist.
But the part that really pisses me off is that someone has killed an innocent man which is suspected to be a terrorist attack and people are like prove that he's a terrorist etc and seemingly no remorse for the people that got hit and killed they are more concentrated in replying to my posts.
I don't like terrorists, and I think I am pretty safe in saying that no poster on this site likes/supports terrorists.
But, if you want to battle a threat you need to properly identify the threat. You/We/Canada can't jump to conclusions regarding this event. "We" need to collect evidence/information.
Just because I have not expressed remorse, does not mean I am not angry that someone (in this case a soldier) is dead. The thing with anger is, that if you don't control it it will control you. It will also blind you to information that might help you.
Proving he is a terrorist or disproving that he is a terrorist can help direct resources to the proper effort to help avoid this type of incident again. If he is just a mentally ill individual, them maybe resources for mental illness should be targeted.
The point is you can't just fly off the handle.
You need to make informed decisions/opinions.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
I don't like terrorists, and I think I am pretty safe in saying that no poster on this site likes/supports terrorists.
But, if you want to battle a threat you need to properly identify the threat. You/We/Canada can't jump to conclusions regarding this event. "We" need to collect evidence/information.
Just because I have not expressed remorse, does not mean I am not angry that someone (in this case a soldier) is dead. The thing with anger is, that if you don't control it it will control you. It will also blind you to information that might help you.
Proving he is a terrorist or disproving that he is a terrorist can help direct resources to the proper effort to help avoid this type of incident again. If he is just a mentally ill individual, them maybe resources for mental illness should be targeted.
The point is you can't just fly off the handle.
You need to make informed decisions/opinions.
I don't think I've flew off the handle in this thread. I have only stated how I feel about terrorists/murderers whether its Muslim or Christian it doesn't matter
You get the posters who think I'm going to defend Christians if they do wrong
Posts such as. What if the Christian church acts violently against homosexuals. Wtf is that even a valid argument?
But this thread isn't about that there for its irrelevant right.
It's about a man who has murdered a soldier who is a recent convert to Islam who has been perceived as a terrorist. Yes he hasn't been proven guilty of a terrorist act yes. But what he is guilty of is pre meditated murder of a soldier.
Ignoring the really ignorant posts and posters on here, I wanted to touch on a thought for a second.
As CC said, this new method of terrorism may be the most effective and scary yet, and that's precisely what ISIS had in mind when they talked about these small attacks both in their own literature and videos and the few statements they did put to the coalition countries in general.
However, in thinking about it for a little bit, I start to wonder if it really would be that effective. Follow me for a second.
If each attack kills on average one citizen (more on why I picked that number later), you're going to need one terrorist for pretty much every act that happens, This guy got killed in the attack. Most will. And those that don't will probably be caught and killed or jailed very quickly.
Is there really going to be that many terrorists, or more importantly, that many terrorists that have the ability and attitude to see it through? I wonder.
Don't get me wrong, even one death is too many. But at the end of the day, how many terrorists could there be to continually carry out small attacks. Also, how long will they stay motivated if not a whole lot is going on?
Now the reason why I picked one death per attack is there have already been attacks like these in other countries that haven't even succeeded in killing one. The recent attack near Melbourne Australia on the police officer comes to mind. While some attacks my kill more, some may not kill any. As well, some may get arrested even before launching an attack. In Canada I think we are a little safer than the US, just based on our gun laws.
Anyway, this is just me talking out loud, would love to hear thoughts on if it makes sense or not. If it does however, this is precisely how fear and overreacting would make things worse than they really are. Not only worse, but less safe. If we all keep our heads, stay vigilant but sane and positive, we defeat the whole point of 'terrorism', the terror. And discourage more attacks in the process.
I get what your saying, but for each successful attack, how many crazies does it inspire? How much easier does it become for someone who's actively recruiting to point at the fear created and get his man.
If you keep your cell small, 1 or 2 people, your costs cheap and don't communicate with anyone else, its at least very easy to engage in that act and attack a soft spot.
A revolution starts with one man so to speak. And if you have one man like the one yesterday if this is a terror attack who probably accomplished everything he did on the way to his interpretation of martyrdom the question now, is how many people has he inspired, and how many people that were on the fence have dipped a little bit closer to the wrong side of the equation.
the mistake of the Toronto 18 was that they were 18 people and they were foolish.
If it was the Toronto 2 and they didn't do the stupid things that the 18 did and didn't try to recruit targeted a school in a small community where law enforcement is a little soft, we might be talking about a hideously successful mass shooting.
The successful blue print of the Berzerker terrorist in my mind.
1) Find a soft spot, a small town a middle class neighborhood, a small business, a mall.
2) Cheaper is better. Don't move money around, don't take money from outside groups. Use a weapon that you already have around the house ie car, gas, a long gun or shotgun.
3) Don't do anything to trigger suspicion. Buy small amounts of what you need ie ammo, or fertilizer, use cash not credit cards.
4) Keep your group small - one or two people is optimum. But don't recruit, don't talk to anyone about what your doing as a precursor
5) Be fricken normal - don't change your personality, better yet don't change your appearance. don't go on twitter or facebook and post that your in a killing mood.
6) Realize that your going to get caught or (preferably) become a martyr for your twisted cause. Leave behind a suicide note or video if you can to inspire the sheep.
7) Make your target political, maybe go after politicians and members of government or business owners or cops or soldiers. This way you can inspire those that are on the fence that your group is not evil incarnate
8) If Terror is the game then maximize your soft kill area. amateur sporting events or malls or schools are probably your best friend, but chances are you only have a few minutes to do your work.
I've probably missed a few. But if we look at individual acts of terror as an inspiration, if you die, how many rise to take your place?
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I don't think I've flew off the handle in this thread. I have only stated how I feel about terrorists/murderers whether its Muslim or Christian it doesn't matter
You get the posters who think I'm going to defend Christians if they do wrong
Posts such as. What if the Christian church acts violently against homosexuals. Wtf is that even a valid argument?
But this thread isn't about that there for its irrelevant right.
It's about a man who has murdered a soldier who is a recent convert to Islam who has been perceived as a terrorist. Yes he hasn't been proven guilty of a terrorist act yes. But what he is guilty of is pre meditated murder of a soldier.
Ermmmm..........actually you did fly off the handle......
Spoiler!
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottish_flame
I've said it on here before that these #######s will come to Canada and do this.
Next step creating Muslim areas where non Muslims get attacked for walking through, trying to force sharia law and making restaurants serve only halal meat because it suits them better.
Religion of peace my arse.
Hope the soldiers should make a full recovery, they have enough to worry about without being terrorized in their home
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Radical Christians oppose both homosexuality and abortion. Gays, abortion doctors, their homes and their workplaces have been targeted with violence. People who state an opposition to either homosexuality or abortion should be monitored very closely, and if there's a threat imminent, they should be imprisoned or deported.
I don't usually try to get involved in these kinds of discussions but this kind of a statement leaves me utterly dumbfounded.
To equate radical Christians and the harm they have do to abortion doctors and homosexuals (and the society they live in in general) with radical Islam and the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people that they have killed, hurt and displaced in nations all over the world is like calling a peanut equal to a cow because they can both be used for food.
I would assume that nobody outside of the social justice league even takes a comment like this seriously.
You can't honestly believe that conservative Christians and Islamic terror groups are the same thing, can you? Your blind hate toward Christianity is no different than an ultra conservative Christians hate for a gay person. Should we be watching you?
Ermmmm..........actually you did fly off the handle......
Spoiler!
I think it's justified
The sharia law etc isn't relevant to this situation but I strongly believe if the radical groups increase in Canada that will happen
And so. Maybe you react differently but when I get woken up by the news to see that a soldier has been killed in what is to be perceived as a terrorist attack being angry is justified
Legitimately though, does anyone know how many Canadians went to fight the Russians in Afghanistan? I can't find any information or statistics on it. I'm guessing they didn't think about this type of thing back then.
I think that was different, first of all because there were literally two different groups of Mujaheddin. One that was pretty much all Afghani. And the foreign fighters who came through Pakistan and were funded heavily by the Saudi's and gave rise to Bin Laden.
I don't know if that many Canadian's went over there, I did read a book by Eric Margolis that talked about a handful that went over and then stayed on with the Taliban. For the most part North American's were encouraged to work with the Pakistan based charity offices and fund raise over here like crazy.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
