Quebec man shot by police after injuring two soldiers in hit and run. Terrorism?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

He just killed a soldier in the name of Islam and you come out with this tripe ?

Tripe? No need to throw insults around.

If he had killed a soldier in the name of Jesus, Buddha, Darwin or the flying spaghetti monster would that still be considered terrorism?

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You might want to do a little research on this person.

I think at times that we tend to use a little too wide of a mentally ill brush to justify the acts of the individual.

Was he a big fan of ISIS - Yes
Was he trying to head overseas to fight for ISIS - Yes
Did his own site contain imagry and videos of ISIS a group that encourages terrorist actions in the international community - Yes

So did he believe in a cause that advocates terrorism and violence? - Yes

Is the investigation complete? No

Is he a murderer? - He is now
Is he a terrorist? - early signs indicate yes
Is he mentally ill? Don't know yet, but his actions seem rational from the standpoint of a crusader.

Is he Muslim? Yes
Does it matter? In the eyes of the law no
Would his actions be considered terrorism? Under the modern definition of having a cause, a link to a terror related group, and who he targeted yes

Sure but as you said, the investigation is still ongoing. He could have just been a mentally ill Muslim guy that loves Daesh.

This is not directed at you CC, but let's not start claiming that every Muslim criminal is a terrorist and thinking of ways to deport them (even if they're Canadian citizens).

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

You realize the chance of being killed by a terrorist is practically zero right?

So?

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Tripe? No need to throw insults around.

If he had killed a soldier in the name of Jesus, Buddha, Darwin or the flying spaghetti monster would that still be considered terrorism?



Sure but as you said, the investigation is still ongoing. He could have just been a mentally ill Muslim guy that loves Daesh.

This is not directed at you CC, but let's not start claiming that every Muslim criminal is a terrorist and thinking of ways to deport them (even if they're Canadian citizens).

Yes

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

Ahmad Rouleau convert to Islam.

Did he actually convert, as in he started attended services at mosques, studied the Koran under the tutelage of Muslim scholars, and participated in the rites and rituals of that religion, or did he just claim to have converted without actually becoming a follower of Islam? From what little details that have been reported by the press so far, he sounds like a lunatic conspiracy theorist who, for whatever reason, latched on to the cause of ISIS. The news reports I've read so far show a very strong resemblance to Justin Bourque (the Moncton shooter). It's far to early to assign motivation to this case, especially when nobody has all the facts yet.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

So?

So perhaps you should dial down the fear mongering.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Did he actually convert, as in he started attended services at mosques, studied the Koran under the tutelage of Muslim scholars, and participated in the rites and rituals of that religion, or did he just claim to have converted without actually becoming a follower of Islam? From what little details that have been reported by the press so far, he sounds like a lunatic conspiracy theorist who, for whatever reason, latched on to the cause of ISIS. The news reports I've read so far show a very strong resemblance to Justin Bourque (the Moncton shooter). It's far to early to assign motivation to this case, especially when nobody has all the facts yet.

Expand on that thought please.

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Did he actually convert, as in he started attended services at mosques, studied the Koran under the tutelage of Muslim scholars, and participated in the rites and rituals of that religion, or did he just claim to have converted without actually becoming a follower of Islam? From what little details that have been reported by the press so far, he sounds like a lunatic conspiracy theorist who, for whatever reason, latched on to the cause of ISIS. The news reports I've read so far show a very strong resemblance to Justin Bourque (the Moncton shooter). It's far to early to assign motivation to this case, especially when nobody has all the facts yet.

You realize you are defending a nut job/ terrorist who just murdered a canadian as he was walking down the street

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So perhaps you should dial down the fear mongering.

It's not just attacks. It's converting people to this radical Islam and Isis etc that's also a problem More of them more chance of attacks...simple right? agreed?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

You realize you are defending a nut job/ terrorist who just murdered a canadian as he was walking down the street

No he isn't. He is trying to collect information to make an informed decision/opinion on what happened and the person that was involved.



It is what rational people do.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

It's not just attacks. It's converting people to this radical Islam and Isis etc that's also a problem More of them more chance of attacks...simple right? agreed?

Can you please provide empericial evidence to support your statement please?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Tripe? No need to throw insults around.

If he had killed a soldier in the name of Jesus, Buddha, Darwin or the flying spaghetti monster would that still be considered terrorism?



Sure but as you said, the investigation is still ongoing. He could have just been a mentally ill Muslim guy that loves Daesh.

This is not directed at you CC, but let's not start claiming that every Muslim criminal is a terrorist and thinking of ways to deport them (even if they're Canadian citizens).

Terrorist acts are violent acts committed by groups or individuals with causes contrary to the society that they live in.

The IRA was decidedly Stalinist in their goals and leans as were the Red Army Faction and other 80's revolutionary groups. But at the heart they were terrorists firmly believing that Terror would cause change.

We've seen Maoist Groups, Christian Groups, Race Based Groups, Anarchist groups.

As well as Islamist Groups.

The reasoning is slightly less important then the result.

It seems pretty simple in a lot of ways. If your a naturalized Canadian Citizen that commits an act of terror you are charged with a terrorist related crime and are looking at about 25 years in max security.

If your a Immigrant or someone that wasn't born here and commit a terrorist related crime, the easiest solution is to send you back to your place of origin. However I believe under international conventions if that country refuses to take you back then you can't be deported. This is the question that is going to be debated by every European Country and Western Country as keeping them imprisoned here is expensive and an almost wasted exercise.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

Suspects should be monitored very closely and if they feel there's a threat imminent they should be imprisoned or deported

Not just deported for no reason

Radical Christians oppose both homosexuality and abortion. Gays, abortion doctors, their homes and their workplaces have been targeted with violence. People who state an opposition to either homosexuality or abortion should be monitored very closely, and if there's a threat imminent, they should be imprisoned or deported.


Actually, here's the problem. Define "threat imminent". And keep in mind that thought crimes are not crimes. So "Hey, those ISIS guys are pretty cool" is not prima facie evidence of an imminent threat.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Expand on that thought please.

MONTREAL—For more than a year they tried. For more than a year they failed to help their friend, Martin Rouleau, see the light of day.

Whether it was psychological troubles or honest zeal, the young entrepreneur from St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, the friend to all and father to one young boy was lost to a world of conspiracy theories, hatred and religion-fuelled anger that led to what intelligence and security experts have been fretting about for years: a homegrown, radicalized terrorist acting out on Canadian soil.

[...]

Rouleau co-owned an industrial cleaning company that specialized in pressure washing the exteriors of buildings. About a year-and-a-half ago, Rouleau said his company had been robbed and he became enraged by his inability to get the authorities to take action against the culprit, according to the friend who asked not to be named.

He turned to the Internet. He became obsessed by the news headlines.

“It was bizarre and extreme. He was surely depressed,” said Jonathan Prince. “I think he was depressed and that’s what led him to it. It was weird. He was normal one day and then changed the next.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...wanted_to.html

Again, it's very early and I'm certainly in no position to play amateur psychologist, but reading that passage immediately reminded me of Bourque.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Did he actually convert, as in he started attended services at mosques, studied the Koran under the tutelage of Muslim scholars, and participated in the rites and rituals of that religion, or did he just claim to have converted without actually becoming a follower of Islam? From what little details that have been reported by the press so far, he sounds like a lunatic conspiracy theorist who, for whatever reason, latched on to the cause of ISIS. The news reports I've read so far show a very strong resemblance to Justin Bourque (the Moncton shooter). It's far to early to assign motivation to this case, especially when nobody has all the facts yet.

Here's the crazy question, and its a academic exercise.

does that matter? In his own mind he had converted he was a Muslim.

I think that to convert you don't really need a ceremony, you pretty much need to afirm your faith and attend prayers, and that's consistent with any religion.

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can you please provide empericial evidence to support your statement please?

Can you just not accept the obvious that if there are more people with terrorist ideologies in Canada that it's a problem to the safety of civilians ? It's common sense

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

You realize you are defending a nut job/ terrorist who just murdered a canadian as he was walking down the street

I'm absolutely not defending anyone, especially not this guy. I'm only saying that it's far too early to assign motivation to his crime when nobody, least of all us random internet posters, have all the facts yet.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by scottish_flame

Can you just not accept the obvious that if there are more people with terrorist ideologies in Canada that it's a problem to the safety of civilians ? It's common sense

But your inability to provide evidence of this leads me to believe that it is your tinfoil head that has decided that :

"converting people to this radical Islam and Isis"



Although, I enjoy your use of "common sense".

[Igottago]

I think the question is, was the guy part of a larger group that directly influenced or aided the attack somehow? That to me is terrorism and more of a matter of national security.

If he was a nutjob that just read some stuff online and carried out this act, he's not much different from the typical misfit white guy that listened to death metal and became a mass shooter.

[scottish_flame]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Radical Christians oppose both homosexuality and abortion. Gays, abortion doctors, their homes and their workplaces have been targeted with violence. People who state an opposition to either homosexuality or abortion should be monitored very closely, and if there's a threat imminent, they should be imprisoned or deported.


Actually, here's the problem. Define "threat imminent". And keep in mind that thought crimes are not crimes. So "Hey, those ISIS guys are pretty cool" is not prima facie evidence of an imminent threat.

This isn't a very good response in my opinion. You're asking me if someone who commits a violent crime should face criminal charges and imprisonment

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I think the question is, was the guy part of a larger group that directly influenced or aided the attack somehow? That to me is terrorim and more of a matter of national security.

If he was a nutjob that just read some stuff online and carried out this act, he's not much different from the typical misfit white guy that listened to death metal mass shooter.

I don't think that your first part matters as far as criteria goes.

Its the ever shifting face of terrorism and even ISIS has eluded to it by encouraging individual acts of terror instead of group acts. And simple acts (Ie telling people to run their enemies over with their cars)

As I've mentioned government agencies are very good at finding and infiltrating terrorist groups. The government is also very good at tracking cell communications and money.

In this case as ISIS, your job is merely to inspire people to carry out random acts of terror on their own. The cost is negligible. There's no planning groups. There's no communications happening before the attack like we've seen before. There would literally be no warning.

Basically your seeding your enemy with mines.

If you are inspired by a cause to commit violent acts, if your inspired by ISIS or any of the other terror groups out there to run someone over with your car, I believe that's the new coming definition of terrorism.

And it could be pretty impossible to stop.