Nuge deal - yay or nay

[JiriHrdina]

Folks, we want to get the league's input on this decision.
We have concerns about the latest deal made by the Islanders. Scorp has brought a lot of energy and activity to the league which is awesome. However, this is the type of deal that really hamstrungs an organization going forward.
We have stated that he is off the leash, but this is such a one sided deal that it is causing us pause for thought.

So we put it to you, to decide.

Knowing that we have previously stated that Scorp is off the leash, but that this deal seems to be causing concern, should we reject it or not?

If 2/3rds of voters says we should reject, we will. Otherwise we will pass it.
GMs involved in the deal cannot vote.

[SportsJunky]

This is a bad deal but the leash was taken off. I approve based on that.

[Flickered Flame]

IMO, once the leash comes off, he can make deals how he sees fit. Would the league jump in if a more seasoned GM made a trade like that? I would hope not. Just my thoughts.

[Cheese]

Yup he is free to deal and his team is ok...lesson learned, everyone makes crap deals.

[Moshpit]

Nay

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[devo22]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

This is a bad deal but the leash was taken off. I approve based on that.

yup that's it for me in a nutshell. We all make a bad deal here or there every once in a while, but once the leash is off I don't think the league should step in.

And I bet every manager has a horrible deal or two in the back of their head where they'd realized their mistake and wished the league would have thrown them a bone. Why should the Isles get a bone?

[3thirty]

Approve as he is off the leash, but deals like this (including rationale for it) make me think the leash should go back on or a second opinion mandatory from a seasoned GM for future deals.

[Goffie]

Without the cap I can chalk it up to a bad deal. The cap inclusion makes me want to say Nay. I can't vote on Tapatalk and have no computer until tomorrow morning. So I will officially vote then.

[MJK]

It's a bad deal but he is free to trade.

[TheScorpion]

I personally don't want the deal to not pass, as I highly value Josh Manson and view him as a top-pairing defenseman moving forward. After dealing Boychuk, Bogosian, Polak, and Chara, a deal had to be made. While, in retrospect, I had one other deal which I probably could have (and should have) taken, it is only fair to let this deal remain, in my opinion.

[TheScorpion]

By the way, it is now impossible to get 2/3 of the GMs to vote against it. It passes.

I will not fail to run any trades I make past any of you until I become more confident in my player evaluations; however, I am not convinced that this deal is as "organization hamstringing" as some of you may think. Josh Manson is a helluva defenseman.

[JonDuke]

I didn't want to speak earlier and possibly sway any votes, but happy to see the initial consensus. Now that it's approved, numerically at least, I'll come back to this because the whole "Vetrans GMs shouldn't be screwing new ones like this" from the other thread isn't sitting well with me.

I'll reiterate that cap for next year wasn't initiated by me. But when he brought it up, I definitely went after it. Nuge is getting a raise and I couldn't afford him otherwise. We plan on moving Nielsen and dropping Gordon, which frees up cap space, but we still have quite a bit of work with the back end needing multiple raises too. I despise Nuge with a passion. I know it's just a sim league, but I really didn't want another Oiler on my roster. Having Larsson is bad enough but he's been my best defensive D. So when offered cap on top of RNH, of course I was all over it. This helped as much for injury coverage/playoff protection for this year as it does for cap relief next year. Goal #1 and goal #2 wrapped up in one single package.

I agree that his tenacity for trading and the excitement he brings is very welcomed. But there's been a few deals that he made which caused me to shake my head and I brought up the cap issue to him once in a thread already. I've made some really garbge deals too though. Kucherov and 2 x 1sts (one became Jost I think) for Duchene is one, but I love Dutchy and was ok with paying the price.) There's others though I wish I could reverse as well.

I feel like saying "if I didn't make this deal, someone else would have" is a cop out, but it's true. Screwing the GM? Not intentionally. But if he's willing to pay, I'm taking that deal every single day.

So, honest question to the vets: would you have not taken as much as you could in a similar situation? Or am I truly the ass here?

I'm in this league cause it's fun. I truly like it. My wife passionately hates how much I like it. And I love bouncing ideas around with the GMs I get to chat with. But I definitely try to win trades. Every GM does.

I did it once last year, and am again open to once adjusting a trade I've won. Mostly because even though he still thinks nothing was wrong with this, I hope Scorps eyes will be more open and get a 2nd or even 3rd opinion from a seasoned vet, before pulling the trigger on a future deal. And try to better understand how important cap is, especially when we have 30 teams worth of players trying to squeeze into 30 teams without a cap increase. For the record: Had the leash not been cut, I too would've voted a hell no to this trade.

So, throw some ideas at me to make this better.
Maybe it's the GM over-loving his own players, but I like Caggiula and think he'll have a place on the Oilers for a while. I'll admit he's no Nuge though. I would not have done Nuge and Kruger and the upgraded pick for Caggs and Manson alone. I wanted no part of Kruger and he has no place on my team, but I took him to make the deal.

So, without including the name Dumba, let's hear some brainstorming here. I'm still going to violate him, but you guys can suggest the metaphorical lube to make less painful on him. Give part of the cap back? Ekholm instead of Manson? Add my 2nd? Something else? Even as I type this, I regret it, but I'm open to more ideas. What do you think makes this less of a lopsided trade?

I'm heading out with Mrs Duke for a very rare, childless date night, so I might not be here tonight, but will weigh the suggested options and get back to this tomorrow morning at the latest.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

So, without including the name Dumba, let's hear some brainstorming here. I'm still going to violate him, but you guys can suggest the metaphorical lube to make less painful on him.

[DropIt]

I'm in agreeable with everyone else. Free trade ability, but ugly deal

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by JonDuke

I didn't want to speak earlier and possibly sway any votes, but happy to see the initial consensus. Now that it's approved, numerically at least, I'll come back to this because the whole "Vetrans GMs shouldn't be screwing new ones like this" from the other thread isn't sitting well with me.

I'll reiterate that cap for next year wasn't initiated by me. But when he brought it up, I definitely went after it. Nuge is getting a raise and I couldn't afford him otherwise. We plan on moving Nielsen and dropping Gordon, which frees up cap space, but we still have quite a bit of work with the back end needing multiple raises too. I despise Nuge with a passion. I know it's just a sim league, but I really didn't want another Oiler on my roster. Having Larsson is bad enough but he's been my best defensive D. So when offered cap on top of RNH, of course I was all over it. This helped as much for injury coverage/playoff protection for this year as it does for cap relief next year. Goal #1 and goal #2 wrapped up in one single package.

I agree that his tenacity for trading and the excitement he brings is very welcomed. But there's been a few deals that he made which caused me to shake my head and I brought up the cap issue to him once in a thread already. I've made some really garbge deals too though. Kucherov and 2 x 1sts (one became Jost I think) for Duchene is one, but I love Dutchy and was ok with paying the price.) There's others though I wish I could reverse as well.

I feel like saying "if I didn't make this deal, someone else would have" is a cop out, but it's true. Screwing the GM? Not intentionally. But if he's willing to pay, I'm taking that deal every single day.

So, honest question to the vets: would you have not taken as much as you could in a similar situation? Or am I truly the ass here?

I'm in this league cause it's fun. I truly like it. My wife passionately hates how much I like it. And I love bouncing ideas around with the GMs I get to chat with. But I definitely try to win trades. Every GM does.

I did it once last year, and am again open to once adjusting a trade I've won. Mostly because even though he still thinks nothing was wrong with this, I hope Scorps eyes will be more open and get a 2nd or even 3rd opinion from a seasoned vet, before pulling the trigger on a future deal. And try to better understand how important cap is, especially when we have 30 teams worth of players trying to squeeze into 30 teams without a cap increase. For the record: Had the leash not been cut, I too would've voted a hell no to this trade.

So, throw some ideas at me to make this better.
Maybe it's the GM over-loving his own players, but I like Caggiula and think he'll have a place on the Oilers for a while. I'll admit he's no Nuge though. I would not have done Nuge and Kruger and the upgraded pick for Caggs and Manson alone. I wanted no part of Kruger and he has no place on my team, but I took him to make the deal.

So, without including the name Dumba, let's hear some brainstorming here. I'm still going to violate him, but you guys can suggest the metaphorical lube to make less painful on him. Give part of the cap back? Ekholm instead of Manson? Add my 2nd? Something else? Even as I type this, I regret it, but I'm open to more ideas. What do you think makes this less of a lopsided trade?

I'm heading out with Mrs Duke for a very rare, childless date night, so I might not be here tonight, but will weigh the suggested options and get back to this tomorrow morning at the latest.

Saying that you screwed him was probably a little strong. However, I would say the following
- If offered cap for next year I would have probably explored other alternatives rather than just take it. I generally never ask for or take next year cap because I think it really does hamstrung teams. I've made the mistake of trading next year cap far too often myself.
- When offered the Dumba version of the deal I don't understand why it wasn't just done there. That deal still favors the Flyers by quite a lot. So the fact you went back for more, is where I think you were a little guilty of taking advantage of a new GM. We all do it and it is part of the game but when we talk about asset differential in the league, deals like this make it worse.
- The fact that I had an offer on the table that I view as just superior by a huge margin, is what puzzles me. That's not on you though. Frankly when I sent him an offer that was Lindholm for Nuge 1 for 1 I expected a PM back that simply said "send it over". I frankly thought I was doing the Islanders a bit of a favor, but also wanted to buy low on Nuge.

I don't think you need to adjust the deal. The league has spoken so as far as I'm concerned it is a dead issue now. I just wanted to offer up those thoughts.

That all being said if you don't like Nuge my offer for Lindholm 1 for 1 still stands. I would need cap for next season though.

[TheScorpion]

I made the trade. Everyone ####s up in this league from time to time. It happens. Hell, nobody's talking about how I 'screwed' Cheese out of Kevan Miller for Ryan "4 points this season" Callahan yesterday.

I don't need special treatment. And Jiri, check your Wild GM account.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Hell, nobody's talking about how I 'screwed' Cheese out of Kevan Miller for Ryan "4 points this season" Callahan yesterday.

because you didn't. You got a 3rd pairing defenseman - when those are the centerpiece of a deal, there's seldomly a lot of "screwing" involved. You should maybe be thankful that he freed you from that Callahan contract instead of saying you "screwed him". Maybe the old man still felt guilty for taking a 1st for Rieder

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by devo22

because you didn't. You got a 3rd pairing defenseman - when those are the centerpiece of a deal, there's seldomly a lot of "screwing" involved. You should maybe be thankful that he freed you from that Callahan contract instead of saying you "screwed him". Maybe the old man still felt guilty for taking a 1st for Rieder

A very good third-pairing defenseman.

And it was a joke, I mean no ill will to my man Cheese.

[savardandjokinen]

To be honest, here's my take.

We see dumb deals every so often in the NHL, and now that scorpions made quite a few trades, this has to be approved. I don't agree with the deal whatsoever, but the leash has been taken off so he can do what he wants.

As for the older gm's taking control of the newer ones, I don't think it's a valid point. If scorpion likes Manson a lot, he can make that deal. This is my first year as a GM and I'm still in high school and I don't consider myself a pushover at all, I consider myself as a normal GM.

[3thirty]

What I don't grasp is the sending of Cap, every critique on every deal for the past month has been he will be in cap trouble, yet he has now sent out 3.5 million for next year in the past few days.