Women-only spa’s ‘no male genitals’ rule ignites transgender debate

[Matata]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I was thinking while reading this, I can't imagine a pre op trans woman would have an issue with this. I get it. Your genitals do make a difference here. And it turns out, it's the transgender woman's friend who has the issue. Anyway, one door closes, maybe another one opens.

Jordan Peterson is a prominent figure in modern transgender rights, he says that of the 30 or so transgender people who've reached out to him (keep in mind their are very, very few trans people out there), all but a couple despise the fact that their problems have been pushed to forefront of the current political landscape and that so many non-trans people are trying to speak for them.

They typically just want to live their lives as normally as possible and don't expect the world to bend over backwards to accommodate them.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

He's a prominent modern figure in that everyone accuses him of being transphobic. Not that they're right, but still, you're sort of massaging reality there. The only reason he's even a part of the discussion is his refusal to use certain pronouns.

He's also pretty bat#### insane for unrelated reasons.

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Balls in your court Toewsfan.

Whatever is going on between you two - knock it off.
Put each other on ignore.
That is not a request. If you want to continue to post here it is a requirement for both of you.
No one wants to read this stuff.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I was thinking while reading this, I can't imagine a pre op trans woman would have an issue with this. I get it. Your genitals do make a difference here. And it turns out, it's the transgender woman's friend who has the issue. Anyway, one door closes, maybe another one opens.

It takes years to get surgery in Canada, it costs tens of thousands of dollars to go to the States to get it...if they even want it at all.

Regardless of what side of the debate you're on, I have no idea how you could come to the conclusion that no transgender person would have an issue being banned from a facility that is designed for their identified sex.

[ToewsFan]

Originally Posted by Moderator

Whatever is going on between you two - knock it off.
Put each other on ignore.
That is not a request. If you want to continue to post here it is a requirement for both of you.
No one wants to read this stuff.

I apologize for my part. I admit to overreacting, and i will try not to post in the heat of the moment, going forward.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

He's a prominent modern figure in that everyone accuses him of being transphobic. Not that they're right, but still, you're sort of massaging reality there. The only reason he's even a part of the discussion is his refusal to use certain pronouns.

He's also pretty bat#### insane for unrelated reasons.

It's not that he refuses to use certain pronouns, he doesn't want it to be legislated and that no one should be commanded to use any pronouns. He's stood his ground on the issue which has forced him to depths of the the trans debate, a landscape he is very well equipped to navigate as a professor of clinical psychology (Harvard and UofT).

He's always come across as reasonable to me, what's the bat#### crazy business about?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It takes years to get surgery in Canada, it costs tens of thousands of dollars to go to the States to get it...if they even want it at all.

Regardless of what side of the debate you're on, I have no idea how you could come to the conclusion that no transgender person would have an issue being banned from a facility that is designed for their identified sex.

I would assume someone identifying as a women would understand why women walking around naked may be uncomfortable with pre-surgery genitalia around them?

I guess a question would be if pre-op transgenders were required to wear bathing suits would it be acceptable?

(Well of course it wouldn't to the justice warriors!)

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I would assume someone identifying as a women would understand why women walking around naked may be uncomfortable with pre-surgery genitalia around them?

Understanding someone may be uncomfortable with it, and having no issue with being banned from an establishment for your gender, are not remotely the same thing being said. Not to mention, not all transgender people are the same and share the same beliefs - just like everyone else. Some might completely agree that pre-op should be banned while others understand it to be a form of discrimination.

OMG!WTF! is projecting his beliefs on a group of people who may not share them. In fact we know many don't, we've seen all over Canada and the United States transgender people speak out for their right to use changing rooms, showers, you name it, for the gender they identified with - not the genitalia they have. This is just another example.

Getting a glimpse at a dick isn't going to kill you, being ostracized and marginalized will. Take a look at the suicide rates for transgender individuals and then tell me none of them have a problem being banned from places like this.

[Zarley]

Seems reasonable to me for a nude swimming pool. If you have a schlong, no go. No schlong, all good.

[Coys1882]

Serious question here - do pre-op male trans have doctor's notes or something that would allow them to go into these dressing rooms/spas/pools?

What's stopping some guy like the Canada Creep fella from saying 'I'm trans it's cool' and just going in?

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

What's stopping some guy like the Canada Creep fella from saying 'I'm trans it's cool' and just going in?

what has ever stopped a creepy person from doing somethng creepy...??this doesnt magically open a new door of perversion...does it? no dont think so.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Matata

It's not that he refuses to use certain pronouns, he doesn't want it to be legislated and that no one should be commanded to use any pronouns. He's stood his ground on the issue which has forced him to depths of the the trans debate, a landscape he is very well equipped to navigate as a professor of clinical psychology (Harvard and UofT).

He's always come across as reasonable to me, what's the bat#### crazy business about?

They are projecting. Jordan Peterson is far from bat#### crazy. He is actually pretty reasonable and well spoken. He just doesn't think speech should be legislated.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Serious question here - do pre-op male trans have doctor's notes or something that would allow them to go into these dressing rooms/spas/pools?

What's stopping some guy like the Canada Creep fella from saying 'I'm trans it's cool' and just going in?

Probably not too much now with the new laws being passed. He would still be breaking the law by taking pictures and posting them to twitter though.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Blame the immigrants! Wait, I disapprove of these liberal attitudes. Those immigrants are also mighty convenient!

I don't disapprove of public nakedness. And I'm pro-immigration. I simply understand that Northern Europe is the most sexually liberal culture on earth, and that many immigrants to Northern Europe today come from the most sexually conservative cultures on earth, and that this has caused a lot of friction around social norms. Technology is the biggest culprit in the decline of public nudity, but leering or disapproval by newcomers unaccustomed to extremely liberal attitudes around nudity play a role too.

Naked Germany, Straining at the Seams

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Serious question here - do pre-op male trans have doctor's notes or something that would allow them to go into these dressing rooms/spas/pools?

What's stopping some guy like the Canada Creep fella from saying 'I'm trans it's cool' and just going in?

Probably the beat down that occurs when he's oggling girls and touching himself inappropriately?

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Serious question here - do pre-op male trans have doctor's notes or something that would allow them to go into these dressing rooms/spas/pools?

What's stopping some guy like the Canada Creep fella from saying 'I'm trans it's cool' and just going in?

At the moment, the "bathroom laws" being discussed in US and Canada simply address that people should be free to use the bathrooms of the gender they identify and present as. However, these laws don't override existing laws against public indecency, voyeurism, and a whole list of other criminal acts. Simply speaking, the law is designed to support transgendered people who are transitioning or living in their new gender, and while there will always be those that take advantage of it, the bathroom laws aren't a shield to give bad people a free pass to ogle people

LChoy

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

So what you're saying is this is pretty much like every other thread, just this one happens to be about issues with someone's male genitals.

Hmmm, Toewsfan must have Hockeyguy15 on ignore or something.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

...Anyway, one door closes, maybe another one opens.

NSFW!

[GreenLantern]

So when you say pre-ops male trans, does that mean that it is a female becoming a man but hasn't had the op yet, or the other way around?

I get confused, are we supposed to call the gender by what they were born as or what they identify as?

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It takes years to get surgery in Canada, it costs tens of thousands of dollars to go to the States to get it...if they even want it at all.

Regardless of what side of the debate you're on, I have no idea how you could come to the conclusion that no transgender person would have an issue being banned from a facility that is designed for their identified sex.

I think it's more the clients that pay for a spa for their own sex and don't want to have to stare at a dick and balls. At least post-op you somewhat look like a woman.