After the Biggest Loser - New damning study

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

So if it was that easy why do so many people have a problem with it?

Because of exactly what the OP was about. A fad diet or exercise program, and not a lifestyle change. It works for a while, people actually have a lot of success with it at times, but then they go right back to old habits. If you talk to someone who has lost weight and kept it off, they will always talk about how different their lifestyle was after losing the weight.

It is often not even about counting calories, hitting your macros or lifting weights. Sometimes people are eating 500+ calories worth of junk food per day on top of their regular meals. Start cutting back on those and it can make a big difference.

In one of our other fitness/weight loss threads, numerous people talked about how they just cut back on sugary drinks, beer, junk food, fast food, etc, etc and they lose weight.

Sometimes the changes needed aren't that radical.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I just don't think this is really news.

Obesity is basically an addiction to food. Addictions are notoriously hard to break, and as with any addiction, your body will fight. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, food or anything, your body goes through severe withdrawals.

The fact that you get 80% recidivism is most likely in line with people that have tried to quit smoking. In fact, I'd argue that it's probably better than people trying to quit smoking.

The main point is that, yes, the body will fight you, it's an uphill battle, one that will take probably 5 years for your body to A) lose the weight, B) "reset" your metabolism to a reasonable state.

Crash dieting or Biggest Loser-esque regiments is just like going cold turkey off smoking. It just doesn't work. There's a reason that nicotine patches and other aids exist, and even then, it takes months if not years of discipline and willpower to fully get off of the addiction.

The key, in the end, is that it's completely possible. Couch to 5k, or 10,000 steps or whatever people do to slowly wean themselves off of an unhealthy lifestyle into one that's a lifelong dedication to fitness and health are the aids that will help, but no doubt that obesity/addiction to food would be one of the hardest addictions to break.

I think the addiction is often with sugar, and not necessarily with 'food.' People binge on junk food and the empty calories they have because of what sugar and simple carbs do to your brain.

Otherwise I agree with you.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because of exactly what the OP was about. A fad diet or exercise program, and not a lifestyle change. It works for a while, people actually have a lot of success with it at times, but then they go right back to old habits. If you talk to someone who has lost weight and kept it off, they will always talk about how different their lifestyle was after losing the weight.

It is often not even about counting calories, hitting your macros or lifting weights. Sometimes people are eating 500+ calories worth of junk food per day on top of their regular meals. Start cutting back on those and it can make a big difference.

In one of our other fitness/weight loss threads, numerous people talked about how they just cut back on sugary drinks, beer, junk food, fast food, etc, etc and they lose weight.

Sometimes the changes needed aren't that radical.

Taking cream and sugar out of my coffee (I drink 4-5 a day) and replacing it with Splenda and 2% milk, and substituting pop, for water with the flavour drops, was probably good for 20 pounds of weight loss right there.

And basically dropping bread, fries and pizza was good for another 20. Can't remember the last time I had a potato chip. The thought of them now makes me gag. So synthetic and unnatural tasting.

And I don't miss any of it. There is so many good foods you can eat to substitute, that are actuaaly tastier, it makes no sense going back. Seriously, substituting spaghetti squash, for actually spaghetti is about a billion times tastier.

[Azure]

And 4-5 cups per day isn't even that much.

But, 5 cups, with a table spoon of sugar in each, is 250 extra calories per day, plus cream and you're easily at 500. I think even worse is people are going for the crazy high calorie flavored coffees these day without giving it a second thought. Suddenly 500 calories isn't much.

[nik-]

my coffee is milk and sweetener ... still not 100% sure on the actual benefits of sweetener over sugar.

Also, if someone has a large double double from Tim Horton's, it's the same calories as two cans of coke.

[V]

My last diet I gave up everything in my coffee and just went black. Got used to it fast enough, and now I can have as much as I want. I used to have 3 coffees a day, with 3 sugars per coffee, and one cream, so that alone has had a huge effect.

[GGG]

I think the lack of understanding problem is that it's pretty easy to fluctuate your body weight by 10-15% through things like cutting out liquid calories or not eating junk food. So we think it's easy for those who need to lose 30-50% of their body weight to do the same thing.

[Red]

I think it's reasonable to see where one person has a harder time to burn calories than another. Body chemistry and all...I can see that. But for most part eat less move more is successful.
Heck, even the BL show in question is the perfect example. These very large people are probably the ones that are most likely to gain weight, that's how they got on the show in the first place. They are the ones with bad body chemistry. But even then when you put them on a good diet and exercise plan they loose insane amount of weight.
Problem is when they go home they no longer exercise as much and they don't have a team of chefs cooking for them. With our busy lives it's easy to find yourself at a pizza joint.

I think the secret is in the balance. It's unlikely anyone would want to exercise as much as they do on the show, or eat as little. But if you ease off on both counts you should be able to find a happy medium. You don't have to keep losing weight, just don't gain any. How much effort is that? I don't know.
Thor, since you did the show, can 50% of what is done on the show itself be enough to not gain?

[Red]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think the lack of understanding problem is that it's pretty easy to fluctuate your body weight by 10-15% through things like cutting out liquid calories or not eating junk food. So we think it's easy for those who need to lose 30-50% of their body weight to do the same thing.

Good point, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is easy. It's an easy plan, easy to understand. But it is hard to excecute. Especially for those that are not fit.

[nik-]

I'm currently in the midst of weight loss and the hardest part for me is not allowing one cheat meal to turn into a cheat day to turn into a cheat weekend. Which is something mentioned in the article. Once the ball gets rolling, it just keeps rolling.

By far this is the hardest. Cardio and weights I enjoy ... controlling the urge to run wild on a bag of Doritos is like benching twice my max.

Also drinking ... which I love doing. I can account for the beer calories easy enough in my weekly routine, but the decisions you make diet wise while drunk can be pretty brutal

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Red

Good point, but I don't think anyone is suggesting that it is easy. It's an easy plan, easy to understand. But it is hard to excecute. Especially for those that are not fit.

Your missing my point.

I am saying that based on the research losing 10-15% of your body weight is in no way a comparable experience to losing 50% of your body weight.

So I don't believe you can understand

[Red]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your missing my point.

I am saying that based on the research losing 10-15% of your body weight is in no way a comparable experience to losing 50% of your body weight.

So I don't believe you can understand

Ok, so the research say one thing, but the show itself has people routinely losing way more than the 10/15%. What does that say?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Red

Ok, so the research say one thing, but the show itself has people routinely losing way more than the 10/15%. What does that say?

Losing weight is relatively easy but keeping it off is not possible for the majority of people so saying things like cut out junk food, exercise, and use will power because they were able to lose and keep off small amounts of weight have no idea what they are talking about.

[nik-]

I think the best long term weight loss plan is a crushing heroin addiction

[Red]

Originally Posted by GGG

Losing weight is relatively easy but keeping it off is not possible for the majority of people so saying things like cut out junk food, exercise, and use will power because they were able to lose and keep off small amounts of weight have no idea what they are talking about.

Not possible...ok...we go with that then.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

Also drinking ... which I love doing. I can account for the beer calories easy enough in my weekly routine, but the decisions you make diet wise while drunk can be pretty brutal

Yeah I can do gin and sodas which are pretty low calorie drinks but once I'm hammed it's a battle to not stop and get a bag of chips on the way home. Actually the next day is usually worse. I don't really get wicked hangovers but I usually get super lazy and just order a pizza. Mind you, when I do that it's usually all I eat over the course of the day so it's really only about 2400 calories which is right in line with what my intake should be to maintain my weight but I still feel the shame.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by nik-

I think the best long term weight loss plan is a crushing heroin addiction

I have likened food addiction to a heroin addiction where the medical treatment involves still doing heroin but. Just. A. Little. Bit.

As someone who has spent his life struggling with food I found I the only way to control my food was to always think, acknowledge and be mindful of my eating. I have to plan everything and still shake on a dusting of willpower to go through with the plans. I know how certain foods (carbohydrates and refined sugars) behave in the pleasure centers in my brain and I have to avoid them yet still consume sometimes to "keep the wolves at bay" with regards to satiation and hunger.

I've dropped 42 lbs in five months and I'm trying to reset the weight my body feels is the baseline by decreasing caloric restriction gradually and maintaining this weight for the remainder of the year. After the six months I intend to restrict again for a slow weight loss to a maximum of 10 percent under my current weight. I will never be a skinny dude. I have to keep this in mind while reminding myself that I'm doing this for maximum years of life and happiness with my wife and not to look a certain way.

This has been the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. The struggle is real. There are times when I feel like a junkie wanting to pick up dope so bad but I have to remind myself that being alive is so much more fun than being dead.

[To Be Quite Honest]

So Thor, are you not a fan of Ketogenic diets anymore?

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah I can do gin and sodas which are pretty low calorie drinks but once I'm hammed it's a battle to not stop and get a bag of chips on the way home. Actually the next day is usually worse. I don't really get wicked hangovers but I usually get super lazy and just order a pizza. Mind you, when I do that it's usually all I eat over the course of the day so it's really only about 2400 calories which is right in line with what my intake should be to maintain my weight but I still feel the shame.

FWIW, I have a cheat day once a week, which always includes a fair number of higher calorie beers (I typically prefer the higher ABV beers, which have way more calories). That said, I eat a very clean and balanced diet the rest of the week and will not drink at all (probably 2500 calories/day). I have never really counted the number of calories I eat on a Saturday, but it is undoubtedly a lot. I have been at this a long time now and the net gain for me has always been zero. I know the suggestion is that 3500 calories over your requirements will equal 1lb of weight gain, but I am certain that being 3500 calories over in a single day or evening will not have the same negative results as being in a 3500 calorie surplus over the course of a week or so- the body will simply not be able to metabolize 3500 additional calories in a single day as it would a smaller number of calories for 7 days straight.

I know the idea of flexible dieting, or IIFYM, is very popular at the moment, but a balanced and clean diet for 6 days, followed by single day of just forgetting about monitoring anything is much more rewarding imo. That said, I am not interested in losing or gaining weight at the moment, so don't have to be really worried about a cheat day preventing me from losing. I really wouldn't recommend regular cheat days for those trying to lose weight. Certainly should still have them, but maybe way less frequently.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

So Thor, are you not a fan of Ketogenic diets anymore?

I am a fan, if it works for you as a lifestyle. Carb nite is great for people who are active and workout, atkins is stricter and has no cheat days which works for some.

Honestly if you are eating healthy, you don't feel like your miserable with your relationship with food then whatever works I can't be against. I just know with myself that low carb eating works far best for me, I have no problem with sweets and sugars, but carbs are deadly for me.

Originally Posted by Red

I think it's reasonable to see where one person has a harder time to burn calories than another. Body chemistry and all...I can see that. But for most part eat less move more is successful.
Heck, even the BL show in question is the perfect example. These very large people are probably the ones that are most likely to gain weight, that's how they got on the show in the first place. They are the ones with bad body chemistry. But even then when you put them on a good diet and exercise plan they loose insane amount of weight.
Problem is when they go home they no longer exercise as much and they don't have a team of chefs cooking for them. With our busy lives it's easy to find yourself at a pizza joint.

I really hate to keep harping on this, but what people are missing is that these contestants did not have chefs, they cooked their own meals. The problem is yes sometimes you just fall back in to old routines, but the drivers for this are not laziness, but powerful biologic drivers like the drop in leptin, the lowered metabolic rate, powerful triggers, hunger...

All this does not mean that modest weight loss is hopeless, experts say. Individuals respond differently to diet manipulations — low-carbohydrate or low-calorie diets, for example — and to exercise and weight-loss drugs, among other interventions.

But Dr. Ludwig said that simply cutting calories was not the answer. “There are no doubt exceptional individuals who can ignore primal biological signals and maintain weight loss for the long term by restricting calories,” he said, but he added that “for most people, the combination of incessant hunger and slowing metabolism is a recipe for weight regain — explaining why so few individuals can maintain weight loss for more than a few months.”

Dr. Rosenbaum agreed. “The difficulty in keeping weight off reflects biology, not a pathological lack of willpower affecting two-thirds of the U.S.A.,” he said.

I have to keep harping on this because this is the message science is telling us, and is not reaching the masses because its more gratifying to just blame the people for not having enough willpower and determination, which no one is denying are key factors in the few that keep it off.

But the blaming is a problem, we need to realize this is a biological problem that we have yet to find a good medical way to treat, until we do we can at least go after fad dieting, calorie restrictive diets and fast weight loss.

Just think about this, your body does a number of coordinated things to return you to your starting point, powerful hormones, slower metabolism, powerful cravings, and we are just starting to understand some of these things such as the hormones like leptin and others in the stomach.

Slower metabolisms were not the only reason the contestants regained weight, though. They constantly battled hunger, cravings and binges. The investigators found at least one reason: plummeting levels of leptin. The contestants started out with normal levels of leptin. By the season’s finale, they had almost no leptin at all, which would have made them ravenous all the time. As their weight returned, their leptin levels drifted up again, but only to about half of what they had been when the season began, the researchers found, thus helping to explain their urges to eat.

Leptin is just one of a cluster of hormones that control hunger, and although Dr. Hall and his colleagues did not measure the rest of them, another group of researchers, in a different project, did. In a one-year study funded by Australia’s National Health and Medical Research Council, Dr. Joseph Proietto of the University of Melbourne and his colleagues recruited 50 overweight people who agreed to consume just 550 calories a day for eight or nine weeks. They lost an average of nearly 30 pounds, but over the next year, the pounds started coming back.

Dr. Proietto and his colleagues looked at leptin and four other hormones that satiate people. Levels of most of them fell in their study subjects. They also looked at a hormone that makes people want to eat. Its level rose.

“What was surprising was what a coordinated effect it is,” Dr. Proietto said. “The body puts multiple mechanisms in place to get you back to your weight. The only way to maintain weight loss is to be hungry all the time. We desperately need agents that will suppress hunger and that are safe with long-term use.”

While its depressing to hear this stuff, its still positive we are starting to understand more precisely what is happening, and thus medical intervention and treatments in the future can counteract what the body is doing, or trick it to even not react to weight loss, which would be a huge step.