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Old 03-18-2013, 04:15 PM   #1
Pierre "Monster" McGuire
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Question Let's Talk CIS Hockey

I'll start by saying I don't follow, read, or generally pay any attention to CIS. I don't think it's just me. I think it's a national trend that most Canadians don't care much for CIS sports. In fact, I'm sure most Canadians follow NCAA sports far more.

So I have a few questions about it:

1.) Why don't more CHL players opt to go the CIS route when their major junior career is over? The CHL has an excellent scholarship program, so why not take advantage of it if you can't get an AHL contract?

2.) Is the NCAA route just a sexier means to an end?

3.) How do the top end CIS teams stack up against NCAA both educationally and athletically (namely, hockey-wise)?

4.) Do NHL teams scout CIS teams for undrafted players? If not, why not? Should they scout CIS? Are there diamonds in the rough there?

5.) Can you name any overage player that came from CIS to go on to have a good NHL career?

6.) Lastly, this is just a general question. Why are you more interested in NCAA sports than CIS sports? Is it quality or is it just because NCAA is the low-hanging fruit and it's easier to follow (i.e., more resources, internet, news articles about NCAA, etc.)?
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #2
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A lot of guys in the CIS played in the CHL, maybe even the majority. They can't go to the NCAA so if they want an education after junior they don't have many options. The NHL doesn't usually scout these teams that extensively, but there are a few solid NHL players that have played in the CIS. Joel Ward is the most recent, who played at UPEI, Darryl Boyce and Jody Shelley come to mind too. Probably not worth it for an NHL team to regularly scout the CIS though.

I can't really speak to the quality of education because there are so many different schools in D-1 and CIS. The quality probably differs from school to school, and I'm not too familiar with American schools to judge. NCAA is the better league but I would actually say that it is somewhat comparable competition. A good CIS team would probably hang with a bad NCAA team. The big difference is that the good NCAA teams have star players that would never play in the CIS
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:12 PM   #3
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As neo mentioned, a vast majority of players (at least in the West) are CHL players. The U of S for example have only 2 players who have not played CHL, and they played Junior A. The U of C Dinos have a couple more guys who have 'just' Junior A experience. Also sprinkled in there are a few guys who played a year in the minor pros, figured they weren't going to make it big, then went to play CIS. A good example of this is Chris Durand, who was a 2nd round pick of the Avs, who plays for the U of S.

Most of these guys are playing/going to school thanks to CHL scholarships, where they get a year in school for each year they play. Some more information from the WHL on that here: http://www.whl.ca/page/whl-scholarships

This makes comparison with NCAA schools very much apples and oranges. The US players are younger, but certainly their top end players may be better and definitely have a higher upside. CIS and NCAA teams do often play each other in exhibition games in the fall, with the NCAA teams usually coming out on top, but that may also speak to the NCAA teams looking for an 'easier' team to defeat early the same way that NCAA football or basketball teams actively scout for teams to schedule early in the season to rack up wins.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire View Post

3.) How do the top end CIS teams stack up against NCAA both educationally and athletically (namely, hockey-wise)?

5.) Can you name any overage player that came from CIS to go on to have a good NHL career?
2) I don't know much about CIS, but most of the CIS players were good CHLers. Take a look at the U of C Dinos for example. They finished mid-pack this season, but their roster included:

Jacob De Serres (3rd round, 2008)
Giffen Nyren and Tyler Fiddler - two important pieces (especially Nyren) of the Hitmen team that made the memorial cup two years ago.
Brock Nixon - another very good player from the Hitmen a few years ago

That's just the recognizable names too. Their backup was a WHL starter, three other players appear to have been top6 forwards in the dub, another was drafted in the 5th round in 2008, and a few appear to have been role players in the dub.

I'd expect them to give an NCAA team a good run for their money.

University of Saskatchewan has Kyle Bortis, Jimmy Bubnick, and Zak Stebner who were also very good players for the Hitmen.

5) Joel Ward and Steve Rucchin (former centermen for Kariya and Selanne). There's probably a few more who had successful NHL careers as well
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:35 AM   #5
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I would say the NCAA has the edge for hockey talent because a player has to choose between the chl and NCAA, whereas CIS is more for players who have already taken the CHL route and have gone undrafted and are now pursuing an education.

Run on I know but it's early
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:22 AM   #6
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I just can't reconcile why Canadian University Hockey is ignored in Canada?

No good reason for it that I can think of...
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerz View Post
2) I don't know much about CIS, but most of the CIS players were good CHLers. Take a look at the U of C Dinos for example. They finished mid-pack this season, but their roster included:

Jacob De Serres (3rd round, 2008)
Giffen Nyren and Tyler Fiddler - two important pieces (especially Nyren) of the Hitmen team that made the memorial cup two years ago.
Brock Nixon - another very good player from the Hitmen a few years ago

That's just the recognizable names too. Their backup was a WHL starter, three other players appear to have been top6 forwards in the dub, another was drafted in the 5th round in 2008, and a few appear to have been role players in the dub.

I'd expect them to give an NCAA team a good run for their money.

University of Saskatchewan has Kyle Bortis, Jimmy Bubnick, and Zak Stebner who were also very good players for the Hitmen.

5) Joel Ward and Steve Rucchin (former centermen for Kariya and Selanne). There's probably a few more who had successful NHL careers as well
Cory Cross was a walk on at the UofA. Ended up playing quite a few NHL games
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear View Post
I just can't reconcile why Canadian University Hockey is ignored in Canada?

No good reason for it that I can think of...
University sports in general are ignored and in many places there are 1 or 2 better teams/leagues to watch live plus NHL to watch on TV.

Hard to get excited about guys who next year could be lining up next to you in your Tuesday night beer league.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:30 AM   #9
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Cory Cross was a walk on at the UofA. Ended up playing quite a few NHL games
And to round out the topic, he's now an assistant coach for the Dinos.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear View Post
I just can't reconcile why Canadian University Hockey is ignored in Canada?

No good reason for it that I can think of...
Probably because it involves a bunch of guys who weren't elite enough to be pro NHL prospects. It seems to involve the best junior guys who choose not to or didn't receive offers to turn pro. So it has got older guys than the NCAA and doesn't really have any NHL prospects.

And then of course you have the fact that University sports in general are not anywhere near as popular in Canada as in the US.

So if you want to watch amateur hockey most cities/towns have a junior team with a more notable tradition, better marketing, etc.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear View Post
I just can't reconcile why Canadian University Hockey is ignored in Canada?

No good reason for it that I can think of...
At least there was a good crowd at the University Cup game I went to last thursday here in Saskatoon:



Was great hockey too, a lot more physical than I've seen in other leagues, including WHL. Felt kind of like a Junior B game for players playing a little wild and going for big hits, but with the skill of WHL players. Made for a really enjoyable game. Went to a few during the year as well, they play in basically a minor hockey rink for most of their games so the atmosphere isn't even close to as good as it was for the tournament. The huskies home rink compares to probably Norma Bush arena in Calgary.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:30 PM   #12
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I didn't realize it before but J.D Watt plays for the SAIT Trojans. After watching some of the SAIT games on tv this past weekend and hearing his name, I was like his name sounds familiar.
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