[GDT] Flames vs Stars - 6:30 - SNet-Cgy

[BACKCHECK!!!]

I got tickets to the game!!

I'll be freaking out about Sven being scratched IN PERSON!!

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Isn't following a hockey team as closely as many of us follow this team count as a hobby?

Following? Sure.

The "...insane, rambling messages..", the "...replying to everyone in Calgary media posting about it (on twitter)...", the "...explosion of messages from you flooding this thread."? That's kind of going off the deep end.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Clearly Butler is meeting the expectations of the coaches and is an example for our younger defencemen of a player they should aspire to be.

I mean, if we're going to use the argument that Baertschi is simply being held accountable, and all.

You are really starting to come apart at the seams now with this stretch.

As has been said the Wideman/Russell pairing has been good so no point in breaking that up. Who do you think is a better candidate on the roster to play in place of Gio? SOB has been good because he hasn't been asked to do anything more than he is capable of. Butler has played first pairing in the past for this team so it's not a stretch for him to assume this role and after seeing how little ice time he got against the Coyotes there was no way the coaches were going to ramp up Breen to top pairing.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I got tickets to the game!!

I'll be freaking out about Sven being scratched IN PERSON!!

Give Ashax your twitter handle so you can scream out his tweets word for word in the Saddledome. And prepare to lose your voice.

[bubbsy]

wow.... just getting caught up here.

Never woulda thought he was getting benched. I thought he's been a big factor in monahan's success this year (after hudler of course).

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

So, one?

Read the rest of the thread and you'll see my response. There's been more than one player under 6 feet make a difference defensively over the 100+ years of organized hockey I'm sure. If your that interested, go look it up yourself.

I hope the Flames at least grab 1 or 2 points tn. 4 points on that awful road trip would be ok.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I agree, you bench a player like Glencross to hold him "accountable". You bench Giordano, to hold him accountable. You can bench a Stempniak or a Stajan to hold them accountable. That's really the only reason you'd bench players like that.

You can bench Sven, for multiple reasons. Most of which would be to teach. Whether that's to teach a lesson, whether that's to teach through observation or a multitude of these things.

This is where these conversations go off the rails. People keep wanting this "even" playing field for all the players, and consistent treatment paths. Glencross has been worse than Sven, therefor Sven cannot sit until Glencross has been sat. If coaches deviate from this, it's not fair, it's not just, blah, blah, blah.... It's not that black and white, benching Sven doesn't even mean the coaching staff thinks he's been worse than Glencross, just means it what they think will benefit him, and given we are dealing with multi million dollar athletes who are getting paid to play, versus 13 year olds who's parents are paying for them to play, it doesn't matter if it's fair, it just matters if it helps accomplishes the long term goals the coahces have for the player.

I'd much rather be watching Sven play tonight than not from a fans perspective, but in a re-building year, with an away game, I'm really glad the aren't making decisions based on entertaining the fans.

Yup, good post and I agree.

Except Hartley's comments say something completely different...

#Flames Hartley on Baertschi. "Needs to work on all 3 zones." it's about commitment". he tells Sven to use B. Gallagher of MTL as example

Roger Millions‏@RogMillions1m

Hartley says Joe Colborne is getting rewards for Hard work. He was behind when arriving in YYC..now he's paid off for work. #Flames

It's about commitment? Can't say that I agree with Hartley on that one.

Also, he rewards Colborne for his hard work, but then says that to Baertschi. Colborne has definitely worked hard and improved. But I've seen even more of that from Baertschi.

Clearly Hartley and I do not see the same things when we watch him play.

I think Hartley isn't a fan and I don't agree with him.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I don't see how a line of Cammalleri-Monahan-Hudler could be considered anything but the Flames top line, especially after the starts from Hudler and Monahan. This line will definitely draw attention from opposition coaches for line matching and match-ups. Welcome to the bigs, kid. Get ready for a whole other level.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

I got tickets to the game!!

I'll be freaking out about Sven being scratched IN PERSON!!

Make a sign! Express your outrage!

[handgroen]

if the flames lose tonight it likely won't be because beartchi's not dressed it will likely be because lehtonen is an all-world goalie when he's right.
plus butler sux

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yup, good post and I agree.

Except Hartley's comments say something completely different...

#Flames Hartley on Baertschi. "Needs to work on all 3 zones." it's about commitment". he tells Sven to use B. Gallagher of MTL as example

Roger Millions‏@RogMillions1m

Hartley says Joe Colborne is getting rewards for Hard work. He was behind when arriving in YYC..now he's paid off for work. #Flames

It's about commitment? Can't say that I agree with Hartley on that one.

Also, he rewards Colborne for his hard work, but then says that to Baertschi. Colborne has definitely worked hard and improved. But I've seen even more of that from Baertschi.

Clearly Hartley and I do not see the same things when we watch him play.

I think Hartley isn't a fan and I don't agree with him.

I think it's the opposite. He has the bar higher for Sven. He knows Sven can get A's so when he gets a B its not good enough. When Colborne gets a C he gets a gold star because Hartleys' happy he's not getting a D in class.

[wingmaker]

Another seemingly contagious misunderstanding: just because Glencross hasn't been sat does not mean he is getting a free pass. Glencross is in a completely different situation from Sven. Why would anyone think they would be handled the same way? Given that the fans are railing on Glencross, the Fan960 has been pointing out Glencross, does everyone think that somehow the coaches don't know that Glencross is not playing up to standard? But that still doesn't mean you should bench him. They know him personally. Obviously, they will try what they think will work for that player.

Sven is a rookie. Sitting rookies is so common it is amazing that this is a conversation. It is one of the common tools coaches have in helping young players learn what is expected of them. It happens to young players across the league and no one on CP says boo. It is one game. If it continues, then the discussion can be had, but one game is really not a big deal.

As for Butler, he plays a completely different position!!! Obviously the expectations are different!

Come on!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I think it's the opposite. He has the bar higher for Sven. He knows Sven can get A's so when he gets a B its not good enough. When Colborne gets a C he gets a gold star because Hartleys' happy he's not getting a D in class.

Could be.

Some guys react well to a kick, others to a carrot.

For me, it looks like Baertschi would be better served right now with a pat on the back, but obviously Hartley doesn't think so.

[handgroen]

also when talking about who should and shouldn't be scratched, some players are no longer in the development stage i.e. glencross, if it's better for sven long-term to have him sit every once in a while because he tends to get too comfortable, then so be it.

we are all somewhat resigned to the fact that the flames are not a top tier team this year, so the outcome of the game tonight should be secondary to sven's development. who's to say that they know this is bad for his development? i'm almost certain that he's being sat in an effort to grow his game in some way, and not in an effort to skate away with two points tonight. If you gave hartley an injection of sodium pentethol he would probably tell you that they have a better chance of winning if they dress sven tonight.

[BlackWallStreet]

wow hartley screw u buddy

[stemit14]

Flames defense will have their hands full tonight. This Dallas team has a lot of creative forward that are given pretty free reign to play an offensive system so butler, wideman, Brodie, and Russell will have to be solid. Good news is that the Dallas defence is pretty weak so the flames forward could make some things happen tonight as we'll. just wish baertschi was in tonight to take advantage of it.

[Goodlad]

Wanted to share an insightful post from that other board

Anglesmith:
I just watched Hartley's interview myself, and picked up on some things a little differently than just from reading the assessment in the post in this thread.
His first way of breaking the news of Sven being scratched was that he explained that with Stajan and Jones returning, we were pretty 'loaded up' for forwards

When asked about basically how he felt Sven was playing, Hartley said nothing about his defensive play. He said that he thought he was okay, and was creative with the puck, but that they wanted more. That doesn't sound like the kind of response where he's played his way into the press box. It's certainly much different than Burke's comments.

His comment about three zones was taken completely out of context. The reporter asked if the scratch was down to defensive-zone play, and Hartley said it was more overall, that they wanted more out of him in all three zones.


Just some more perspective. It really does sound like he didn't want to sit anyone else, and so he sat Baertschi. I'm not sold that there is a concrete reason for scratching Baertschi other than numbers in his position. I'm not sure whether this is a more or less acceptable reason for Hartley.

Does anyone have a link to the actual interview? From this is definitely doesn't sound as extreme as the tweets implied.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Could be.

Some guys react well to a kick, others to a carrot.

For me, it looks like Baertschi would be better served right now with a pat on the back, but obviously Hartley doesn't think so.

I don't know he did get better after the Burke callout and he seems like a guy that can take criticism and does want to get better when he is interviewed. I guess its up to the pros I don't have a good read since I'm not in the room.

[Robo]

Wow as sad as I am to see baertchi scratced I am totaly stoked to see a cammi Monahan hudler line

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Wanted to share an insightful post from that other board



Does anyone have a link to the actual interview? From this is definitely doesn't sound as extreme as the tweets implied.

http://video.flames.nhl.com/videocen...sole?id=466840

That's the interview. Basically said he's a young player and they want more from him.