[GDT] GTD - Flames vs Blues - 6:00 - SNetCgy

[Gary83]

Originally Posted by 1stLand

If I was Johnny Hockey

You're not.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The fact that this is going to be a long rebuild is just one of the many reasons why I want Sven Baertschi in the lineup over Tim Freakin' Jackman.

So lets RNH him and throw him out for 16 plus minutes a game, every game. Don't worry about development or anything and with a little luck he won't get injured being run over by teams like St. Louis.

It's a long season, most rookies can't handle an 82 game schedule so sitting him here and there is only going keep him from getting injured. He's looked physically over matched in some games, probably good to protect him a little. He'll get his games in.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

The fact this is a long rebuild should be a reason why Baerstchi sitting for a game or 2 or 3 isn't a big deal.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by btimbit

It's not as black and white as Jackman>Baerstchi. Obviously Sven just isn't doing something that the coaches want to see. Not like Jackman has been playing better then Sven therefore took his spot, he's simply filler. Not saying I agree with it, but I see when Bob is coming from


"We felt that Max Reinhart was playing very well over in Abbotsford. St. Louis is a big, physical team and we like what Max brought to us in training camp and in exhibition games," Hartley explained. "We felt that Max was the right guy for tonight's game."

I agree with Hartley's quote re: Reinhart but that has nothing to do with Jackman playing with Money and Hudler. Ie. just because Reinhart is playing doesn't mean that Sven can't. If anything he should be replacing Jackman not sven.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Zevo

So lets RNH him and throw him out for 16 plus minutes a game, every game. Don't worry about development or anything and with a little luck he won't get injured being run over by teams like St. Louis.
It's a long season, most rookies can't handle an 82 game schedule so sitting him here and there is only going keep him from getting injured. He's looked physically over matched in some games, probably good to protect him a little. He'll get his games in.

These are really good points and I hadn't looked at it that way.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by strombad

This is very true. Players like Patrick Kane win you cups.

It should also be noted that Patrick Kane has worked tirelessly over the past couple seasons to improve his defensive game and play away from the puck, which culminated in a great year last year.

Patrick Kane, one if the absolute best and most exciting offensive machines the league has to offer, changed his game so that he was responsible defensively and a valuable player without the puck.

Surely if one of the best if required to do it in order to improve his play, we shouldn't be so worried about our prospect having to do it as well.

Patrick Kane is -9 right now on the Hawks. Hawks fans agree that he is bad defensively, and they're fine with that, because he's a point per game offensive player.

He is a bad defensive player. I'm not even saying that Baertschi is bad in his own zone, but Patrick Kane is doing just fine, never stepping into his own zone at all (he hasn't significantly improved his defensive play, contrary to what you believe; he's gone from terrible to awful)

[Henry Fool]

Originally Posted by Gary83

You're not.

Aren't we all Johnny Hockey, when you think about it?

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by heep223

Also,

"Sven has to find a way to get into the lineup." -Bob Hartley

What does that even mean?

Probably wants to see more from him in practice. More intensity or something would be my guess.

Some things I've noticed with Sven is he has made an effort to be better in all 3 zones, and every now and then makes a brilliant pass. Unfortunately he getsnpushed off the puck very easily, loses battles along the boards, and seems to be looking to dish off the puck instead of shooting.

In my opinion those problems are just chalked up to a lack of intensity, confidence, and inexperiance. Happens to a lot of kids, but he is going to have to play his way back into the lineup and it all starts at practice.

Again this is just my opinion, I don't have insider info or anything. Sven is a good kid with a good head on his shoulders and a ton of talent. He will get there eventually.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Zevo

So lets RNH him and throw him out for 16 plus minutes a game, every game. Don't worry about development or anything and with a little luck he won't get injured being run over by teams like St. Louis.

It's a long season, most rookies can't handle an 82 game schedule so sitting him here and there is only going keep him from getting injured. He's looked physically over matched in some games, probably good to protect him a little. He'll get his games in.

Baertschi is 2 inches shorter than RNH and 20 pounds heavier. This has nothing to do with physicality or not being in game shape.

[4oh3]

I think flames will put up a good fight after the game against the wild. May lose by 1-2 but may also pull of a W. But I think tomorrow will be bad in colorado.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Patrick Kane is -9 right now on the Hawks. Hawks fans agree that he is bad defensively, and they're fine with that, because he's a point per game offensive player.

He is a bad defensive player. I'm not even saying that Baertschi is bad in his own zone, but Patrick Kane is doing just fine, never stepping into his own zone at all (he hasn't significantly improved his defensive play, contrary to what you believe; he's gone from terrible to awful)

Oh, you watch a lot of Blackhawks do you? Because, I'm going to go ahead and say that as a Hawks fan who has watched a majority of the games Kane has played, since his career began, I call shenanigans on you. Kane is significantly improved over past years, he's never going to be a defensive dynamo, but his effort level and physicality is a lot higher in the defensive zone.

You made a poor analogy, get over it. Baertschi has learning to do and he will do it, put away the fanboy junk for a bit and see the bigger picture.

Your constant harping about Baertschi the victim is extremely tiring. Perhaps if he decides to start scoring he could be allowed a little more leeway, but.... wait.... how much offense was he putting up while on the Money/Hudler line? Wait, how much offence is he putting up on any line?

If you don't think he should be taught to be defensive, he should sure as hell be putting up some offence.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Zevo

So lets RNH him and throw him out for 16 plus minutes a game, every game. Don't worry about development or anything and with a little luck he won't get injured being run over by teams like St. Louis.

It's a long season, most rookies can't handle an 82 game schedule so sitting him here and there is only going keep him from getting injured. He's looked physically over matched in some games, probably good to protect him a little. He'll get his games in.

Which is fine but the problem is that Hartley is replacing him with Jackman and playing him on the 2nd line.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I actually have a sick feeling in my stomach after seeing this lineup.

Honestly, I believe Hartley has been trying to get fired of late. Every line looks terrible and that's the truth. We've all seen the games and I can't count how many questionable and dumb decisions Hartley has made. Get this guy out of here already..

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Patrick Kane is -9 right now on the Hawks. Hawks fans agree that he is bad defensively, and they're fine with that, because he's a point per game offensive player.

He is a bad defensive player. I'm not even saying that Baertschi is bad in his own zone, but Patrick Kane is doing just fine, never stepping into his own zone at all (he hasn't significantly improved his defensive play, contrary to what you believe; he's gone from terrible to awful)

+/- is a terrible stat and Patrick Kane himself shakes his head at how he played as a rookie and notes how much more he focuses on both ends of the ice now.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blackhawks/post/_/id/4677516/kane-learns-to-love-defense-too

By the way he is 9th in the league in takeaways (granted another flawed stat) and has finished top 10 each of the last 2 seasons. The Flames leader (Backlund) had 9, Rookie Sean Monahan has 8, and Sven Baertchi has none.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Baertschi is 2 inches shorter than RNH and 20 pounds heavier. This has nothing to do with physicality or not being in game shape.

And teams like St Louis are on average 15-20 lbs heavier and 2 inches taller than Baertschi, and play a very physical game. Hartley knows this, hence some bigger guys in the line-up. It's a freakin rebuild, have some patients. I'm actually glad someones looking out for the players.

If Sven had been lighting it up I could see the uproar, but he hasn't.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

+/- is a terrible stat and Patrick Kane himself shakes his head at how he played as a rookie and notes how much more he focuses on both ends of the ice now.

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blackhawks/post/_/id/4677516/kane-learns-to-love-defense-too

Hard to swallow when you view the +/- for all the other top Hawks forwards.

In fact he is the only starter with a - on that team. haha

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Which is fine but the problem is that Hartley is replacing him with Jackman and playing him on the 2nd line.

This just shows me he's trying to develop his young guys and not just focusing on wins. With the way St Louis plays, he wants a big guy out there with Monahan. I wish it was someone other than Jackman but it's not and at least he is trying to protect him. Hopefully it's just one game.

[dino7c]

Patrick Kane is on a team with some of the best 2 way players in the game...its such a stupid debate. Quit talking like he is going out and winning cups by himself he is part of the team and there are more important players to their success then him

[devo22]

I'm always willing to watch Flames hockey in the middle of the night and pass on some sleep to watch "my" club play, but after seeing Hartley's lines for the St Louis game, I will happily go to bed early tonight. Well done, Mr Hartley - that hasn't happened often before.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Hard to swallow when you view the +/- for all the other top Hawks forwards.

In fact he is the only starter with a - on that team. haha

Thing is it's not because he has more GA then the rest of his teammates. He is only on the ice for 2 more GA then Toews and actually on the ice for about the same GA as Keith and Seabrook.

He is not scoring 5 on 5 (only on the ice for 8 ES GF) and that is leading to the poor +/-.