Starting Six: Calgary Flames All-Time Lineup

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nope, I easily take a prime Fleury over Iginla.

That is nuts

[jlh2640]

Theo (off wing) Nieuwendyk Iginla

Regehr Macinnis

Kipper


thats my team

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nope, I easily take a prime Fleury over Iginla.

Not for me. Fleury was definitely more electrifying, but Iggy in his prime was bringing so many more attributes to the table. It's Iginla 100 times out of a hundred for me.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Love

There aren't many players to have played the game that I would take """easily""" over a Ted Lindsay, Art Ross and two time Rocket Richard recipient, especially not Theoren "Plus/Minus MVP" Fleury

Do you honestly think Iginla would have gotten a sniff of any of those feats during Fleury's playing days? You mean Iginla's 98 point season? Fleury had a 104 point season and hit the century mark twice. Fleury had a 96 point season in 95-96 playing on a line with German Titov and Paul Kruse. Think about that.
Gold medals at the world juniors, the worlds, and the Olympics, and a SC ring. His numbers are simply better than Iginla's in the same amount of games played for the Flames. I love Iggy, he was a beast up until the lockout when he decided he would rather be faster and lose the bulk but even then he was still a great sniper and physical. Skill wise he is not on Fleury's level, not even close really. Fleury had more drive as well, he was like this little annoying ***** fueled by hate, cockiness, and the desire to be the best. I always found Iggy to just be too laid back about wins and losses. The team would be struggling like hell and Iggy would be smiling away saying his cliche "Ya we need to be better" but he never got angry at his teammates or called them out when he should have. I have said it before but if the Flames don't have to move Fleury for money reasons and he does not go off the rails (I don't think that happens if he stays in Calgary instead of ending up in NY) then Iggy never comes close to his numbers.

[Love]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Do you honestly think Iginla would have gotten a sniff of any of those feats during Fleury's playing days? You mean Iginla's 98 point season? Fleury had a 104 point season and hit the century mark twice. Fleury had a 96 point season in 95-96 playing on a line with German Titov and Paul Kruse. Think about that.
Gold medals at the world juniors, the worlds, and the Olympics, and a SC ring. His numbers are simply better than Iginla's in the same amount of games played for the Flames. I love Iggy, he was a beast up until the lockout when he decided he would rather be faster and lose the bulk but even then he was still a great sniper and physical. Skill wise he is not on Fleury's level, not even close really. Fleury had more drive as well, he was like this little annoying ***** fueled by hate, cockiness, and the desire to be the best. I always found Iggy to just be too laid back about wins and losses. The team would be struggling like hell and Iggy would be smiling away saying his cliche "Ya we need to be better" but he never got angry at his teammates or called them out when he should have. I have said it before but if the Flames don't have to move Fleury for money reasons and he does not go off the rails (I don't think that happens if he stays in Calgary instead of ending up in NY) then Iggy never comes close to his numbers.

Jarome's 94 in 70 is much more impressive than any one of Fleury's seasons. That's over a 110 point pace.

Also, I'm not going to comment on your evaluations of the players as competitors, but I think you're way off base on Iginla. He was the heart and soul of this franchise for nearly the duration of his tenure here, and people let a small fraction of his way out taint their memory of everything he had done for this franchise.

Iginla is probably one of the few players in the history of this sport that you cannot try and use the linemate excuse as leverage for another player over him. The best center he's ever had the chance to play with in his tenure here are Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow, who are/were solid but unspectacular top 6 forwards.

Jarome has won everything there is to be won in this sport:

2 Mem cups, WHL player of the year, CHL all first team, several humanitarian and leadership awards, 3 time NHL first all star team, 2 rockets, Art Ross, Pearson, 6x NHL all star, Gold in '96 at the World Juniors, Gold in '97 at the World Championships, Gold in '04 at the World Cup of Hockey, 2 Olympic Gold Medals in '02 and '10.

He's actually much more of a winner than Theoren Fleury, and if he had the chance to play on a near All Star team type roster like Fleury did in '89 (or didn't get cheated in '04), he'd have a Stanley Cup on his resume himself.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Love

Iginla is probably one of the few players in the history of this sport that you cannot try and use the linemate excuse as leverage for another player over him. The best center he's ever had the chance to play with in his tenure here are Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow, who are/were solid but unspectacular top 6 forwards.

So you are arguing that Titov and Kruse were better players than Langkow and Tanguay? Umm sure.

[Jay Random]

What is beyond question is that scoring league-wide was higher in Fleury's time than Iginla's. When Fleury got his 96 points in 1995-96, the average NHL team scored 3.14 goals per game, and the Flames scored 2.93. When Iginla got 98 points in 2007-08, the average had dropped to 2.72, and the Flames scored 2.79. Fleury's 96 put him 17th in the league that season; Iginla's 98 put him third. In 1995-96, 12 players topped 100 points; in 2007-08, only two.

Considered in that light, I think Iginla's performance was considerably more impressive than Fleury's.

By the way, Titov was no plug. He scored 67 points in '95-96, and topped 50 twice after that; which makes his offensive contribution pretty comparable to Conroy's. Nor did Fleury play exclusively with Titov and Kruse. Pierre Page liked to mix up his lines, and Fleury spent a fairish amount of time with a few guys who may have been marginally better than Paul Kruse. You may have heard of them. Their names were Michael Nylander, Cory Stillman, and Gary Roberts.

[Love]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you are arguing that Titov and Kruse were better players than Langkow and Tanguay? Umm sure.

Sounds like you're cherry picking, I could also say:

So you are arguing that David Moss and Roman Horak were better players than Nieuwendyk/Gilmour/Makarov/Roberts/Reichel? Umm sure.

[JD]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you are arguing that Titov and Kruse were better players than Langkow and Tanguay? Umm sure.

Now you're just getting ridiculous. Fleury's best year was playing alongside superstars. Iginla's best year was on the old MCI line. Remember that year when Iginla and Savard made Andrei Nazarov look good? Talk about a feat! Fleury rarely made his teammates better, he was electrifying but he was a selfish player that tried to do everything himself. Occasionally he'd even pull it off! It's why we loved him. And I hate that you're making me argue against him. He's not a better player than Iginla but he was for sure one of the best Flames ever. Top 10 no doubt. Probably most peoples' top 5.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Love

Sounds like you're cherry picking, I could also say:

So you are arguing that David Moss and Roman Horak were better players than Nieuwendyk/Gilmour/Makarov/Roberts/Reichel? Umm sure.

How does what you just wrote have anything to do with what I said?

[dissentowner]

We will agree to disagree. I watched both players during their whole span in a Flames uniform and I stand by my opinion.

[powderjunkie]

Looking at other teams they've done so far:

Sabres are laughably bad for a 47 year franchise. Hasek would have to carry them even more than the regular teams he played on.

Not sure how strict the author is on positions, but he put Messier at LW. Most teams would benefit from putting their 2nd and 3rd best centres on the wings...

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How does what you just wrote have anything to do with what I said?

Kruse was not Fleury's linemate for any substantial length of time, any more than Moss and Horak were Iginla's regular linemates. That's the connection.