What was the biggest fleecing by a Flames GM?

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Kipper for a 2nd was a great trade for us.

For the Sharks, they traded their 3rd string goalie for a 2nd round pick and turned that pick into a 1st pairing Dman, and they've never had a void at the goaltending position due to trading away Kipper.

That trade was not a "fleecing" in any way, shape or form.

It was a solid trade for both teams.

The Sharks made a good decision with that pick, but in isolation, getting Kipprusoff for a 2nd rounder has to be considered a massive win.

[calgaryblood]

Lanny McDonald became the face of the franchise when he came over from Colorado. He also has the Flames record for most goals in a season with 66 dingers. Now Kipper is a fine choice but my vote is still with Lanny.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't consider Kipper a fleecing because nobody, including Sutter, knew what Kipper would become. A fleecing, in my opinion, is when you get something that is recognised at the time as much higher value than you gave up.

So I'd have to go with Mullen. Spare parts for one of the top wingers in the game who already had two 40 goal seasons under his belt and was just entering his prime.

Ron Caron had to be the stupidiest GM for judging talent. Not only did he give us Mullen on a platter, he did the same with Gilmour. What was he thinking at the time?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

For the Sharks, they traded their 3rd string goalie for a 2nd round pick and turned that pick into a 1st pairing Dman, and they've never had a void at the goaltending position due to trading away Kipper.

True but they may have won a cup if they'd kept Kipper, we certainly wouldn't have beat them in 2004.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't consider Kipper a fleecing because nobody, including Sutter, knew what Kipper would become.

Noone can guarantee what he would become but Sutter joined Calgary a few weeks after being canned in San Jose, I'm sure he was familiar with the player.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Dion

Ron Caron had to be the stupidiest GM for judging talent. Not only did he give us Mullen on a platter, he did the same with Gilmour. What was he thinking at the time?

Well, in Gilmour's case he was probably thinking he slept with an under aged babysitter, and they wanted him gone.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Well, in Gilmour's case he was probably thinking he slept with an under aged babysitter, and they wanted him gone.

I forgot about that issue.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Dion

Ron Caron had to be the stupidiest GM for judging talent. Not only did he give us Mullen on a platter, he did the same with Gilmour. What was he thinking at the time?

It was about money. The Flames had the highest payroll at the time, St Louis was one of the lowest. All those great players Calgary got from St Louis were demanding raises.

FWIW Cliff Fletcher once told me that the Gilmour deal was was his best trade, because Mark Hunter came with Gilmour.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Can't call the Kipper trade a "fleecing" when the Sharks ended up picking a legit top pair Dman with that pick, and will end up having him for an entire 15 or so year career.

A fleecing implies that you ripped the other GM off, which is not the case with that deal. It was great for both teams, especially since the Sharks were not left wanting for a goalie at any time during Kipper's career.

The fact the Sharks turned the pick into Vlassic is the reason it is not the top trade for me. Flames got a franchise goalie butnthe Sharks made good on the return and have a top pairing D.

Now if Boston ends up with a star player or some core players from the Hamilton trade it may not appear like the fleecing it does today

One deal that was saved by a draft pick imo was the fairly big Ference/Kobasew for Primeau/Stuart. I believe there was a conditional pick of Stuart did not re-sign which ended up being the pick used to select TJ Brodie. A year or two after the trade it looked like a disaster for Calgary. Stuart was the main piece and he walked as a UFA. Ference went on to be a solid contributor for the Bruins. I don't think much came of Kobasew but I recall the Flames sending a 2nd rounder to the Leafs to take on the contract (Flames got Stralman in the deal to flip for a 3rd). Getting Brodie in the long run made that trade a big win for Calgary.

[locsofblu]

Not even close. Hands down Kipper trade.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't consider Kipper a fleecing because nobody, including Sutter, knew what Kipper would become. A fleecing, in my opinion, is when you get something that is recognised at the time as much higher value than you gave up.

So I'd have to go with Mullen. Spare parts for one of the top wingers in the game who already had two 40 goal seasons under his belt and was just entering his prime.

This is exactly right. Kipper turned out to be a great trade but the Mullen trade meets the definition of fleece. For the same reason I consider Hamilton a great trade, but not a fleecing based on what we gave up. Lanny trade was a fleece too.

[Husky]

Its too bad he didnt last longer on the flames but Huselius was snagged for peanuts.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

One deal that was saved by a draft pick imo was the fairly big Ference/Kobasew for Primeau/Stuart. I believe there was a conditional pick of Stuart did not re-sign which ended up being the pick used to select TJ Brodie. A year or two after the trade it looked like a disaster for Calgary. Stuart was the main piece and he walked as a UFA. Ference went on to be a solid contributor for the Bruins. I don't think much came of Kobasew but I recall the Flames sending a 2nd rounder to the Leafs to take on the contract (Flames got Stralman in the deal to flip for a 3rd). Getting Brodie in the long run made that trade a big win for Calgary.

I think that was one of the most convoluted trades the flames have ever done!

[btimbit]

The thing that stops me from saying the Kipper deal is that he wasn't know to be the next big thing in goaltending, it just worked out that way. It's probably the best value trade in Flames history, but not to much a fleecing.

I have to say the Hamilton trade. Everyone knew Hamitlon was a future top pairing dman and Treliving still managed to get him for extremely cheap. Now THAT'S a fleecing.

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by GoFlamesGo89

Its got to be kipper for a second-- look at the trouble we're stilling having filling his shoes. Most important position for essentially peanuts.

Nah, we didn't give up peanuts, we gave up pickles.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The fact the Sharks turned the pick into Vlassic is the reason it is not the top trade for me. Flames got a franchise goalie butnthe Sharks made good on the return and have a top pairing D.

Now if Boston ends up with a star player or some core players from the Hamilton trade it may not appear like the fleecing it does today

I think the player taken with the pick has to be evaluated separately from the trade unless its on draft day and a team trades another team specifically to take a certain player.

When San Jose traded Kipper for a second, even they had no idea who they would take with the pick.

If the Flames trade Gaudreau for a 7th round pick, and then turn around and draft the next Crosby with that pick....the trade was still a terrible deal.

The fact that it worked out in the end doesn't make Gaudreau for a 7th any less terrible.



I think the only exception here is when a GM trades a first round pick in a draft where the picking order hasn't been set. If the Flames miss the playoffs by a point and their pick wins the lottery, a lot of fans will be losing their minds over why Treliving didn't insist on a lottery protected pick in the Hamonic trade. In a case like that the GM should wear it a bit.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The fact the Sharks turned the pick into Vlassic is the reason it is not the top trade for me. Flames got a franchise goalie butnthe Sharks made good on the return and have a top pairing D.

Now if Boston ends up with a star player or some core players from the Hamilton trade it may not appear like the fleecing it does today

One deal that was saved by a draft pick imo was the fairly big Ference/Kobasew for Primeau/Stuart. I believe there was a conditional pick of Stuart did not re-sign which ended up being the pick used to select TJ Brodie. A year or two after the trade it looked like a disaster for Calgary. Stuart was the main piece and he walked as a UFA. Ference went on to be a solid contributor for the Bruins. I don't think much came of Kobasew but I recall the Flames sending a 2nd rounder to the Leafs to take on the contract (Flames got Stralman in the deal to flip for a 3rd). Getting Brodie in the long run made that trade a big win for Calgary.

IIRC it was Primeau who went to the Leafs. Kobasew went to Boston.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Was that for Vlasic? How they use the pick doesn't indicate it's value. If we had traded a 1st instead of a second and the 1st busted did we then fleece them? Would that have been a "better" trade because the guy selected busted? Nope.

The Stajan trade was decent. 3rd line c and only gave up a disgruntled locker room cancer d man.

Hope you're joking about this. That horrific trade was the beginning of five years of missing the playoffs.

[Matty81]

Can't argue with the st.louis trades and kipper.

Another one that was less one sided but equally key was when they traded shantz, morris and mcammond for drury and yelle. I think that deal along with a couple others helped turn the team around. Morris was a lazy holdout who for me never seemed to give 100% on the ice. Shantz was hard working but not great at hockey. Loved Deano but he was a 3rd liner on any good team.

Yelle was super underrated and was a top 5 defensive forward in the league and Drury was a really good player. Although he got swapped for Warrener and Reinprecht a year later... I think that was the move that really started to change the 90s young guns losing culture of the room. 3 middling players from a bottom feeder for two key pieces of a cup winning team.

[Vulcan]

Most trades are pretty convoluted if you go into the final results such as picking up Brodie.

I like this. "Who won the Boston to Toronto trade of Phil Kessel?"

Answer is "Dallas and Calgary."

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

IIRC it was Primeau who went to the Leafs. Kobasew went to Boston.

Yes Kobasew was in the deal that landed Primeau. The Flames signed him to an extension and paid a 2nd rounder to Toronto a couple years later to move the contract off the books