[Trade] Hawks trade Panarin,T. Motte,+6th to CBJ for Saad, A. Forsberg, + 5th - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

s_procee · 06-23-2017, 04:18 PM

How much of Panarin was Kane though?

Textcritic · 06-23-2017, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_procee

How much of Panarin was Kane though?

Not a lot. He was dazzling all on his own, and his impressive skillset helped to make that pair so fun to watch.

OzSome · 06-23-2017, 09:21 PM

I guess I haven't pay that much attention to the Blackhawks' salary or this off-season. Are the Hawks trying to shed salaries? Surprised to see Panarin and the Hammer getting traded (separate deals). Then Hossa will be out for the season. What is going on?

Philly06Cup · 06-23-2017, 11:52 PM

I disagree about people saying Kane made Panarin. Kid had good stats in Russia. Kane's centre, Anisimov, also plays on that line and on the PP1, and had bad numbers.

Saad was pretty average on CBJ, though that might just speak to CBJ's weird depth and rolling three lines of 1a 1b and 1c.

Looks like major win for CBJ to me.

Erick Estrada · 03-28-2018, 07:30 AM

This is exhibit A of why you don't make knee jerk trades based off a disappointing finish to a season. Panarin showing that he's a really good player all on his own leading the Jackets in scoring. Just a terrible trade for the Blackhawks. To think a great coach (who hated the trade in the first place) may take the fall for this.

UKflames · 03-28-2018, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This is exhibit A of why you don't make knee jerk trades based off a disappointing finish to a season. Panarin showing that he's a really good player all on his own leading the Jackets in scoring. Just a terrible trade for the Blackhawks. To think a great coach (who hated the trade in the first place) may take the fall for this.

I thought that was what everyone wanted so that he could sign with the flames for a billion dollars and lead us to the promised land, he is the messiah

Erick Estrada · 03-28-2018, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UKflames

I thought that was what everyone wanted so that he could sign with the flames for a billion dollars and lead us to the promised land, he is the messiah

Well yeah we would all love Quenneville as will every other team looking for a new head coach. If you don't think he would make a difference to the Flames you clearly haven't been paying attention to what he's done over his career.

Cali Panthers Fan · 03-28-2018, 08:15 AM

To be fair, Saad coming back was a very quality asset as well, and had shown chemistry with his Hawk teammates in the past. In Columbus he had back to back years of 25 and 31 goals along with 50+ points. In fact, he had 4 straight full seasons of work where he was around the 50 point mark and anywhere between 20 and 30 goals. Unfortunately, Saad had a down year for him, and the whole team struggled in general. This would probably be the situation to not overreact and wait for Saad to bounce back to 25-30 goal status.

No doubt that Panarin is the better player overall, but you are forgetting that this move was largely because the Hawks couldn't afford to pay Panarin moving forward with their cap structure. Saad makes the same amount of money, but at least he's cost controlled for several seasons coming up, whereas Panarin will be a UFA in one more season and will likely command anywhere between 7-9 million as a nearly point per game player.

And don't forget the Hawks received Anton Forsberg who has been the defacto starter with Crawford's injury. He's done pretty well for a guy thrust into a starter's role with a .908 Sv%. Without him, the Hawks are looking at picking 1st overall this year as their other goalie in the system was J.F. Berube. Darling was in their system last year and moved on to Carolina (again, couldn't afford to pay him). They needed a halfway decent goalie as part of this trade.

Motte was a depth forward throw in to likely even out the contracts, but he'll never make as much impact on the team as Forsberg already has for Chicago.

I don't think this is really that bad of a trade at all. Not the best, but somewhat even when you look at all the factors combined.

Ashasx · 03-28-2018, 08:23 AM

Some of these posts in this thread are really silly in hindsight. "Saad plays a heavy game", "It's tough to rely on tiny forwards". "Saad will help in the playoffs"

All completely ignoring the fact that Panarin had simply been a much better hockey player ever since coming into the league. He leads his team in scoring by 21 points right now with less support than he had in Chicago.

Geeoff · 03-28-2018, 08:23 AM

I like seeing the Blackhawks make a blunder. They are very rare.

Erick Estrada · 03-28-2018, 08:23 AM

It's a bad trade IMO as I don't think finishing bottom 10 in the league was what the Hawks envisioned when they made this deal. With Crawford missing a lot of games the Hawks were likely to regress regardless but it's pretty clear that the Hawks clearly missed the offensive element Panarin brought. Saad's a good player but Panarin is a better player and teams that get the better player win the trade. This is the kind knee jerk trade Treliving simply cannot make this offseason.

SuperMatt18 · 03-28-2018, 08:28 AM

Yeah - will have to reassess after next year but the first year isn't a good look for the Hawks.

34 points for Saad, 71 for Panarin.

Inglewood Jack · 03-28-2018, 08:36 AM

but does Panarin hate to lose the way Saad hates to lose? I think once you factor that in, the scales tip all the way back to about even, at least.

UKflames · 03-28-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Well yeah we would all love Quenneville as will every other team looking for a new head coach. If you don't think he would make a difference to the Flames you clearly haven't been paying attention to what he's done over his career.

Oh I am sure he would make a big difference to the flames, it couldn't get any worse after all. Sorry my reply was meant a bit tongue in cheek.
Personally I am not so sure that the Hawks let him go unless he asks to move on, and as you say, there will a long line for his services.

kyuss275 · 03-28-2018, 09:01 AM

While Columbus is coming out a winner in the trade , let's not forget it looks like Toews lost a step this year and that didn't help Saad's numbers. There is also cap issues involved in trade that come into play.

If hawks don't want Saad , I would have no problem for him to be a flame

Weitz · 03-28-2018, 09:03 AM

They traded for Saad to keep Toews happy. Except they traded the guy that had Kane (their best player) playing his best hockey. Terrible trade it was.

The Cobra · 03-28-2018, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah - will have to reassess after next year but the first year isn't a good look for the Hawks.

34 points for Saad, 71 for Panarin.

Panarin was always going to outscore Saad, they are different type of players.

Sadd plays a 200 foot game, Pararin is simply offense.

But the point discrepancy shouldn't be that great.

Saad has had a pretty unlucky year in SH %, so I expect this trade won't look so bad eventually.

If I was trying to win a Cup, I'd take Saad any day over Panarin.

The Cobra · 03-28-2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

And don't forget the Hawks received Anton Forsberg who has been the defacto starter with Crawford's injury. He's done pretty well for a guy thrust into a starter's role with a .908 Sv%. Without him, the Hawks are looking at picking 1st overall this year as their other goalie in the system was J.F. Berube.

Forsberg has been terrible this year in replacing Crawford.

Chicago was in a playoff spot when Crawford went down.

They have been below .500 with Forsberg leading the way, but the Crawford start has kept Chicago from the very bottom of the league.

If Forsberg had been their goalie all year, they might well have finished last.

Ashasx · 03-28-2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Panarin was always going to outscore Saad, they are different type of players.

Sadd plays a 200 foot game, Pararin is simply offense.

But the point discrepancy shouldn't be that great.

Saad has had a pretty unlucky year in SH %, so I expect this trade won't look so bad eventually.

If I was trying to win a Cup, I'd take Saad any day over Panarin.

I mean, Saad is a good player, but how does this really make sense?

Maybe Saad is a better player when the puck is in his defensive zone, but Panarin is a possession monster. And as it turns out, he doesn't need great linemates to do it. The puck is always in the opposition zone when he's on the ice.

How does that mean Saad is a better player to help win the Cup?

The Cobra · 03-28-2018, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I mean, Saad is a good player, but how does this really make sense?

Maybe Saad is a better player when the puck is in his defensive zone, but Panarin is a possession monster. The puck is always in the opposition zone when he's on the ice.

How does that mean Saad is a better player to help win the Cup?

The puck may be on the offensive zone with Panarin because that's where he usually starts.

I've watched Panarin play quite a lot, and he's a very poor defensive player. Come playoff time, I'm not sure what you'll get from him.

And FWIW, Saad actually has more shoots on goal than Panarin this year. And that's with very little PP time.

I get that the gap this year between the two players is pretty great, but I think a lot of it is attributable to their team support this year and bad luck on his shooting percentage. I'd like to say he'd be a great fit on our first line, but that unlucky SH% seems right in line with what Calgary is going through this year.