Notes: Ken King (Iginla, New Building)

[fatso]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

It's just as embarrassing that some of the fanbase want to keep him out of sentiment rather than whats best for the team.

No, that's where you're wrong. Regardless of how foolish or short-sighted you may think it is for people to argue Iggy should stay, it is nowhere near as embarrassing as the behaviour of those who keep denigrating him because they'd like him gone.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

There is obviously no way to prove he is or isn't. The fact that Iginla has been a leader and won everything he's ever played for minus the Stanley cup, goes a little to saying he is a good leader.

Iginla's won everything he's ever played for? Minus the most important trophy? That's what makes him a good leader?

Eric Staal is a triple crown gold winner, does that make him a superior leader? Inferior? Please explain.

What points to me as being a good leader is showing up when it counts and pushing your teammates to do the same. Being accountable and doing what it takes to win.

No shows in game 7 round 1 2006, 2007 playoffs quitting on Playfair, 2008 playoffs game 7 where he by his own admission was not good enough, games 5 and 6 against Chicago in 2009 when he was a -5 and the three consecutive years following where he has started incredibly slow and faded even faster down the stretch when the games mattered most, being the worst defensive forward in losses to notable non-playoff teams the Islanders and Minnesota.

Remember when Playfair had to apologize to Amonte for benching him?

I'm sure he's a great guy, beloved by teammates and trainers, but I think it's utter horseshiatzu at this point to call him a great leader.

Acting as if saying that is doing him some big insult...smacks of fanboyism.

Sucks to have to run him down like that, but when faced with the mantra and the mythos of Jarome Iginla, it's becoming necessary.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Oh okay, they're overblown.

Yup, I hate Flames fans.

Please don't hate me...

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Really, Iggy can't be the only guy on the team in order to do that. How hard is that to understand? You guys talk as if Iginla was supposed to strap the entire team on his back and lead them to numerous cups (he almost did do it one time). That doesn't happen, I don't care who the supposed "leader" is. They need a great team around them.

No. What he was supposed to do is lead by example and buy into the coaching systems that Playfair and Sutter developed (Keenan let him do whatever he wanted). Sometimes the best thing a leader can is to behave the way the team expects the 4th liner brought up from the AHL is expected to play - do everything the coach says and play like this could be your last shift in the NHL.

Originally Posted by Igottago

Show me how many Stanley Cup winners in the past 15 years had 1 star player.

If the Flames have only had one star player on the team for the last 8 years, then how in the heck did they manage to spend to the cap every year? We must surely have been the worst managed team in the league in that period. And yet many of the same people who are defending Iginla were defending Darryl Sutter during his tenure. Something doesn't add up.

Originally Posted by Igottago

The notion that Iginla is solely responsible for the team's lack of success is outlandish.

Whoever said that? In the NHL, if your team isn't chock full of talent, the only way you can win is with 100 per cent buy-in to two-way hockey from the entire roster. The problem with Iginla is at some point he got the attitude that scoring goals was his only job. He wouldn't buy in to the kind of 4-line, total commitment system that has seen teams like the Predators, Coyotes, and Blues find success with less talent (and less money) than the Flames.

[MrMastodonFarm]

It's mostly frustration Flash, the way you and some others have seemingly rewritten history and have started to attribute things to Iginla to dram him down. The overwhelming negativity is just getting frustrating and annoying.

Case in point. How the hell does Playfair apologizing to Amonte look bad on Iginla?

Now that's Iginla's fault all of a sudden?!?!?!

[/B]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Remember when Playfair had to apologize to Amonte for benching him? :bag.

We're placing one of the most mismanaged teams on Iginla shoulders all of a sudden. It's just annoying and foolish.

[Yakbutter]

How long before seats start to empty, tv rating drop and merchandise sales slow down?

Does the message to the owners and king that the fans are upset with the direction of the team after people stop caring?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Remember when Playfair had to apologize to Amonte for benching him?

Some of us do. The Detroit series was when it became evident to me that something had gone terribly wrong with the Flames' chemistry and leadership.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

How long before seats start to empty, tv rating drop and merchandise sales slow down?

Probably not for a while, especially if they get a young future star with a top pick this year.

It's too bad the Flames owners think they need Iginla to sell a new arena, a winning team and/or a new star would probably do that more.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Case in point. How the hell does Playfair apologizing to Amonte look bad on Iginla?

Now that's Iginla's fault all of a sudden?!?!?!

There's was clearly a players' revolt against Playfair during the Detroit series. You could see it on the ice. I've been watching hockey for 35 years and I've never see anything like it.

Either:

A) Iginla was part of the revolt.

or

B) Iginla was not part of the revolt but he didn't try to stop it.

or

C) Iginla was part of the revolt, and he tried to stick up for Playfair but the rest of the team didn't listen.

Take your pick. None of the options speaks to strong leadership.

Also, you're neglecting all of the comments from both Darryl and Brent Sutter about the lack of accountability of the players to each other. This wasn't one or two comments made out of frustration, but many comments over a period of years. Then the more pointed comments that the Flames were a tough group to coach.

What do you think all those comments add up to?

[moon]

Good to know that despite what teammates at multiple different levels and on various teams have said about him and bunch of fans who have spent a combined 0 minutes playing with, practicing with or spending time in dressing room/on the road with Iginla know better about what kind of leader Iginla is.

It seems pretty silly to say what a poor leader he is when everybody that would know better says that he is a good leader.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What do you think all those comments add up to?

In order to answer this or pick one of your three options I'd have to subcrube to this mystical players revolt theory.

Sure is a lot of locker room insiders here lately though.

[keenan87]

You can already see the demand of tickets on the buy/sell forum. At one point it was impossible to find good tickets for cheap, now almost every pair is being sold for less than they were bought.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

What do you think all those comments add up to?

Looks like it adds up to a group of players being hard to coach. Not sure why that is on Iginla though. Unless I missed them saying he was tough to coach and everybody else was fine.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Yakbutter

How long before seats start to empty, tv rating drop and merchandise sales slow down?

Does the message to the owners and king that the fans are upset with the direction of the team after people stop caring?

My guess it has already started but in terms of when does it start to meaningful or worrisome I would think once the economy goes in the toliet or we see a big recession. Otherwise the interest will be just fine and the team will still be making money and able to spend whatever it wants.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by moon

Looks like it adds up to a group of players being hard to coach. Not sure why that is on Iginla though. Unless I missed them saying he was tough to coach and everybody else was fine.

Iginla was the captain a good captain keeps the group together.

It just shows that Iggy is not able to handle problems in the dressing room as he let the team become hard to coach.

Iginla vs Warrener
Iginla vs Regehr
Iginla vs Phaneuf

There has always been rumors of a split in the dressing room. What a great captain he is eh

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Iginla was the captain a good captain keeps the group together.

It just shows that Iggy is not able to handle problems in the dressing room as he let the team become hard to coach.

Iginla vs Warrener
Iginla vs Regehr
Iginla vs Phaneuf

There has always been rumors of a split in the dressing room. What a great captain he is eh

Iginla vs Warrener? Wasn't that just like.. last week, in the media?

Iginla vs Regehr? When?

Iginla vs Phaneuf? Phaneuf is the enemy when ya need him to be, now he's this great locker room guy. Interesting.

News flash, 23 guys never get along. Any cup winning teams will have a fight or locker room stuff going on at any one point. If you've ever played any type of team sport you should know this.

But alas, Iginla the devil.

[DeluxeMoustache]

It is pretty sad to see so many people making the case against Iggy.

He ends the year top 10 in NHL scoring in good years and top 30 in bad years. Plays better defensively than this board gives him credit for. Hits and sticks up for teammates. Comes to camp in better physical condition than kids 10 years his junior. Wins board battles and the assists he has gotten this year include some very good passes.

11 straight years of 30 goals plus puts him in elite company. That consistency isn't a good example? Plays better in the second half of the season when games matter. How? Resiliency, conditioning, drive?

The World Cup is a second rate tournament populated not by the best players, more so by castoffs. Plus, being mid thirties, the body takes longer to recover, and maybe family time is more important than a second rate tournament.

How many captains have won the cup during Iggy's career, and what type of talent have they had supporting them? Andreychuk had St Louis, Richards and LeCavalier supporting him. And he was the captain solely due to age and experience, not because he was better than those 3.

The guy is playing with cream puff D, a team with no centers. People on this board point out the minus 2 against Phx when he had nothing at all to do with the GA.

This idea of stripping the C is embarrassing. CP should have a penalty box.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by keenan87

You can already see the demand of tickets on the buy/sell forum. At one point it was impossible to find good tickets for cheap, now almost every pair is being sold for less than they were bought.

More like STH cost. Which is less than face value.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by moon

Good to know that despite what teammates at multiple different levels and on various teams have said about him and bunch of fans who have spent a combined 0 minutes playing with, practicing with or spending time in dressing room/on the road with Iginla know better about what kind of leader Iginla is.

It seems pretty silly to say what a poor leader he is when everybody that would know better says that he is a good leader.

Yeah, because we know how candid NHL players are about this sort of thing.

Also, being a great guy who is loved by his teammates =/= great leader.

If the Flames have been a well-lead, committed team this past six years I shudder to think what the results would have been on the ice if they had lacked cohesion and commitment.

[moon]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Iginla was the captain a good captain keeps the group together.

It just shows that Iggy is not able to handle problems in the dressing room as he let the team become hard to coach.

Iginla vs Warrener
Iginla vs Regehr
Iginla vs Phaneuf

There has always been rumors of a split in the dressing room. What a great captain he is eh

He isn't going to be able to keep everyone together and plenty of teams have had issues in the dressing room.

Is Lidstrom a bad captain because Babcock said that Hudler wasn't coachable and that he was leaving him alone. Why didn't Lidstrom get him inline?

From all reports from pretty much every sports every team has internal fights. The fact that these are all just rumours and didn't go further than that seems like it was just fine.

Again Iginla's leadership has been praised by plenty of teammates at different levels but I guess some rumours and possible disagreements with teammates trumps that.