[PGT] Ducks beat Flames 6-3, Honda Center curse continues

[Goodlad]

Originally Posted by 868904

All players should be held accountable. You start giving certain players free passes and you become the No Goods.

Sven was held accountable and he's a rookie. There shouldn't be a double standard and the reason for giving him a pass should not be because he's a rookie.

If you say, it's because Johnny generates so much more offense, that you have to give Johnny a bit of a pass, that's reasonable.

I don't want to sound like i'm harping on Johnny cause I know how important he is to this team, but he has to be held accountable and learn too. It wasn't just one game that he turned the puck over. It happens regularly, and yes it is because he has the puck so often. There were more than two turnovers by him in the first period yesterday, luckily only two ended up in the back of the net. I'm just hoping that he improves this part of his game and limits the turnovers, that's all.

There's nothing wrong with hoping for improvement. He's a good kid and you could tell that he wanted to make up for his mistakes.

Unfortunately this is always going to be a part of Gaudreau's game. Playing the style he does is inevitably going to keep him towards the top of the league in giveaways. Fortunately he'll be in good company with guys like Tavares, Couture, Thornton, Getzlaf, Hertl, Spezza, Benn and Kopitar (all in the top-15 for giveaways in the league.)

One thing he does need to improve on is learning when riskier plays are acceptable. In your own zone with tired skaters on the ice is not one of those times. As others have said I'm sure it's something the coaches are working on with him, but it's a thin line to walk with a player like that. You want him to be responsible without giving up the creativity that makes him so effective. Johnny seems like a smart and very coachable kid though, so I'm sure it's just another small adjustment he needs to make now that he's in the NHL.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Who though? It's easy to say "replace Stajan", but with whom?

There have to be better options. I'm not a coach, nor a GM, but we certainly have quite a few centers now. There is no reason Granlund couldn't do most of what Stajan is doing and more. He's young, sure, but I don't see how he couldn't contribute even more than Stajan is. Just a quick thought.

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Your problem is that instead of backing up what you say you instantly pull the victim card, resort to pointing out you're not the only one who feels that way, and then add the disclaimer you're entitled to your opinion.

None of that is disputed. But back up what you say, and you'd have less people "ragging" on you for the outlandish things you say.

Perfect example is what you touch on above. You weren't "calling out Johnny". You were flat out suggesting he needed to be sat. There's a big difference between pointing out someone's having a bad couple of shifts and determining they need to be pulled from the game. As we saw, that would have been a very premature move because he turned it around pretty quick.

This is a message board and people are going to disagree with you. Instead of pulling the victim card, try backing up what you say.

That's fair enough. I did say that he should be sat. I really felt like his head was not in the game at all and he did get rocked at the blueline in the first period. Really thought the kid was going to get hurt and he looked like his focus was simply not there in the first.

Easy to look back now and say that was not the way to go with how he came on in the second and a little in the third, but at the time, it looked to me the best option was to let him watch the game for a bit to regain his focus.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Who though? It's easy to say "replace Stajan", but with whom?

Granlund, Shore, Arnold, Reinhart?

Move Colborne, Bouma or Byron back to center and bring up one of Sven, Ferland, Wolf, Van Brabant, Hanowski, Agostino, or Poirier to play the wing?

Many options here. If Bennett is actually ready to be in the NHL next year than Stajan is certainly done. Especially if he keeps playing like arse.

Seriously, how did we win all those games without Stajan in the line up if he is so key to the Calgary Flames?

People also said "But who will replace" Bouwmeester, Butler, Cammalleri, Iginla, Tanguay, Stempniak, Kiprusoff. They have all been replaced.

The Flames will be just fine and in my opinion, even better without Matt Stajan.

[GioforPM]

They've tried Granlund at centre, between lots of different wingers, and it hasn't worked that well. Same with Jooris on the 4th. Both those players benefit from playing with good players. Stajan can play with the lesser players and seems to improve their games.

The Flames (not "we") won all those games when Stajan was out on the strength of really hot defencemen scoring and great goaltending.

I think part of the issue is that people seem to think the 4th line should be scoring a bunch. That's really not the role.

I foresee maybe Shore taking Stajan's place, but it aint happening right now.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I hope they don't send Jooris down just to save a few bucks on NHL salary. Looks cheap.

I hope they send him down. Granlund is better and Jooris has really cooled off, even before he was hurt.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Igster

You sure like busting my chops huh?

Listen, I know there is some value in Stajan. But at the end of the day, I believe the Flames can move on from him and replace what he does with someone else. My opinion...and nothing else. Thanks.

I seriously don't really look at who I'm responding to, for the most part, and you weren't an exception.

I get that there's a lot of anti-Stajan sentiment. I think he's played pretty well since his return (not before his injury). I also think, when you talk about replacing him, you have to look at role, what he brings to other players, etc.

Jones is sort of a vet, and I actually like his play most games as well, but he's more of a peripheral piece. There's a reason STajan is an A and it's not because he is a top player like Gio. He's got the room's respect, a lot moer than I think some people think.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

I hope they send him down. Granlund is better and Jooris has really cooled off, even before he was hurt.

If they send him down because he deserves to be sent, fine. I agree he wasn't on fier (but maybe more what everyone expected him to be) and Granlund played well after his benching, at least until last game.

I just took the original post as suggesting they might send him down just for the break and then recall him, which is purely a salary move.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They've tried Granlund at centre, between lots of different wingers, and it hasn't worked that well. Same with Jooris on the 4th. Both those players benefit from playing with good players. Stajan can play with the lesser players and seems to improve their games.
The Flames (not "we") won all those games when Stajan was out on the strength of really hot defencemen scoring and great goaltending.

I think part of the issue is that people seem to think the 4th line should be scoring a bunch. That's really not the role.

I foresee maybe Shore taking Stajan's place, but it aint happening right now.

Exactly.

Stajan's return has helped the 4th line play much better with him there. That is a fact. His good play in most of his games since coming back has really elevated Bollig in particular and he's been much better than any of Bouma, Byron or Granlund have been as 4th line centres this year. And it's not coincidence or luck that that has been the case.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I seriously don't really look at who I'm responding to, for the most part, and you weren't an exception.

I get that there's a lot of anti-Stajan sentiment. I think he's played pretty well since his return (not before his injury). I also think, when you talk about replacing him, you have to look at role, what he brings to other players, etc.

Jones is sort of a vet, and I actually like his play most games as well, but he's more of a peripheral piece. There's a reason STajan is an A and it's not because he is a top player like Gio. He's got the room's respect, a lot moer than I think some people think.

When is the last time Stajan was wearing an A this year? Certainly hasn't been for awhile. Last night Hudler and Russell were wearing the A. Who wants an assistant captain that plays 10 mins a night?

Originally Posted by Karl

Exactly.

Stajan's return has helped the 4th line play much better with him there. That is a fact. His good play in most of his games since coming back has really elevated Bollig in particular and he's been much better than any of Bouma, Byron or Granlund have been as 4th line centres this year. And it's not coincidence or luck that that has been the case.

Really? You say this is a fact? He has elevated Bollig? To what? He makes Byron better? How? Please explain these facts.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

When is the last time Stajan was wearing an A this year? Certainly hasn't been for awhile. Last night Hudler and Russell were wearing the A. Who wants an assistant captain that plays 10 mins a night?



Really? You say this is a fact? He has elevated Bollig? To what? He makes Byron better? How? Please explain these facts.

Stajan's defensive play in many games (but not all) has helped Bollig look less hopeless in the defensive zone. As for Byron, Stajan neither makes him better nor hurts him.

[IamNotKenKing]

Stajan is our best faceoff man, and by a fair bit over all except for Colborne.
He also is a good penalty killer, and is good defensively.
He permits Monahan to be used more offensively.
Granlund, Shore and Arnold may get there, but they aren't there yet.

[mile]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Who wants an assistant captain that plays 10 mins a night?

That's why he isn't wearing an A - but it's understandable how his teammates view him as an assistant captain, or one of the leaders anyways. I remember Monahan saying last year that he looked up to Stajan as a mentor, and still probably does. And Bennett said not too long ago that Stajan was one of the veterans giving him great advice while he was injured. In that manner, he can definitely be viewed as an assistant captain.

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Really? You say this is a fact? He has elevated Bollig? To what? He makes Byron better? How? Please explain these facts.

Where did he say Stajan makes Byron better?

As far as Bollig goes, he's been a little better recently - probably because with Stajan back there has been less instances where our 4th line is caught running around in our zone and more instances where the 4th line is creating more pressure and chances. Stajan adds stability to that line - and he also embraces that role completely without a single complaint. Combine that with the fact that he is familiar with the direction of the team and wants to be a part of solution here, I'm not sure I want any younger players centering that 4th line right now, or even next year. If anything, any younger players that make the team in the future will be taking open spots on the 4th line wing, and having Stajan as their center will give them more confidence to play their own game without having to worry about the defensive responsibilities.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

Stajan is our best faceoff man, and by a fair bit over all except for Colborne.
He also is a good penalty killer, and is good defensively.
He permits Monahan to be used more offensively.
Granlund, Shore and Arnold may get there, but they aren't there yet.

What? Monahan is our best Face off person, and it isnt even close. He is actually 8th in the league when our team is dead last in Faceoff %

8 Sean Monahan, C CGY 47 15 15 30 7 4 1044 517 527 49.5

Next is Jooris @ 96th, than Stajan @ 109th overall.

SOURCE http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...offsWon/count/ (since thats all you bickering kids want) is ESPN's stat page, which im sure you all will twist to suit your own bias.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by cKy

CCGY4715153074104451752749.5

What is this???????

[Karl]

Originally Posted by cKy

What? Monahan is our best Face off person, and it isnt even close. He is actually 8th in the league when our team is dead last in Faceoff %

8 Sean Monahan, C CGY 47 15 15 30 7 4 1044 517 527 49.5

Next is Jooris @ 96th, than Stajan @ 109th overall.

SOURCE http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...offsWon/count/ (since thats all you bickering kids want) is ESPN's stat page, which im sure you all will twist to suit your own bias.

IamNotKenKing was referring to best faceoff winning percentage, not most faceoffs won.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

What is this???????

I believe it's a flight log code.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by mile

That's why he isn't wearing an A - but it's understandable how his teammates view him as an assistant captain, or one of the leaders anyways. I remember Monahan saying last year that he looked up to Stajan as a mentor, and still probably does. And Bennett said not too long ago that Stajan was one of the veterans giving him great advice while he was injured. In that manner, he can definitely be viewed as an assistant captain.

I don't remember Monahan or Bennett saying anything about Matt Stajan. I could have missed it though, got a link?

Originally Posted by mile

Where did he say Stajan makes Byron better?

As far as Bollig goes, he's been a little better recently - probably because with Stajan back there has been less instances where our 4th line is caught running around in our zone and more instances where the 4th line is creating more pressure and chances. Stajan adds stability to that line - and he also embraces that role completely without a single complaint. Combine that with the fact that he is familiar with the direction of the team and wants to be a part of solution here, I'm not sure I want any younger players centering that 4th line right now, or even next year. If anything, any younger players that make the team in the future will be taking open spots on the 4th line wing, and having Stajan as their center will give them more confidence to play their own game without having to worry about the defensive responsibilities.

He said Stajan has made the 4th line better. Byron has been on the 4th line with Stajan and Bollig.

People keep saying Stajan is so great defensively, I don't see it at all. He constantly makes bad passes, bad reads, panics with the puck, runs around in our zone. He was horrible last night. Every shift.

I have watched almost EVERY single game that Stajan has played in his 6 years here. He has been beyond underwhelming. He can be easily replaced, especially when he is playing 10 mins a night. He will be pushed out of the lineup soon.

[cKy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I believe it's a flight log code.

It's a StarDate, clearly.

GP G A PTS +/- PIM FO W L PCT

[Karl]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I don't remember Monahan or Bennett saying anything about Matt Stajan. I could have missed it though, got a link?



He said Stajan has made the 4th line better. Byron has been on the 4th line with Stajan and Bollig.

People keep saying Stajan is so great defensively, I don't see it at all. He constantly makes bad passes, bad reads, panics with the puck, runs around in our zone. He was horrible last night. Every shift.

I have watched almost EVERY single game that Stajan has played in his 6 years here. He has been beyond underwhelming. He can be easily replaced, especially when he is playing 10 mins a night. He will be pushed out of the lineup soon.

I've watched many games since Stajan's been a Flame for 6 years too.

Really though, constantly makes bad passes, bad reads, panics with the puck, runs around in our own zone? Yeah, I don't think so.

I'm not seeing that in many of the games I watch this season and I've watched most Flames games this season.

I haven't usually seen any of those things you're seeing from him since the 2011-12 season. Not saying he's been good every game (and I didn't watch the game last night maybe he was horrible in that one), of course not but, in my opinion, he's been solid for the most part since coming back from injury, and fairly good more often than not since the lockout shortened season till this point.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by cKy

What? Monahan is our best Face off person, and it isnt even close. He is actually 8th in the league when our team is dead last in Faceoff %

8 Sean Monahan, C CGY 47 15 15 30 7 4 1044 517 527 49.5

Next is Jooris @ 96th, than Stajan @ 109th overall.

SOURCE http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...offsWon/count/ (since thats all you bickering kids want) is ESPN's stat page, which im sure you all will twist to suit your own bias.

Monahan is the Flames' most active faceoff man (which makes sense when you consider the injuries that kept every other NHL centre out of the lineup for over a month each), but not the best by win rate.

Yes, he's 8th in the league in total faceoff wins, but he's 5th in the league in total faceoffs taken.

Of the Flames who have taken at least 200 faceoffs this season, Monahan's win percentage is behind Stajan and Colborne, but ahead of Jooris, Backlund, and Granlund.

League-wide, his win rate is pretty middle-of-the-road (again, to be expected since he's just below 50%). He is only 0.1% behind Crosby, so at least he's in good company.