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Old 08-10-2017, 08:46 AM   #21
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In any day and age your pretty much asking for trouble when you do anything to another person. Throwing a butt back in someones face, cutting someone off on the road. Its not this generation, but almost any generation going back to the days when we climbed out of the muck and dropped our tails in the sand.

But it just seems that over the last little while, especially in the major cities, people are a lot quicker to anger, retailiate, bully whatever. Maybe its stress.

At the same time, people need to realized before they drop knuckles, that there's a pretty good likelyhood that at the end of the day you could be sitting in a jail cell awaiting charges, or brain damaged, crippled, or dead.

Fights are incredibly dangerous and if you get in one, a clean shot to the head via a punch or kick or sucker punch could pretty much get your lights put out if you can't or won't defend yourself.

At the same time, the victim here was foolish, not because he necessarily did the wrong thing, but throwing a butt into someone's car without knowing who that person is, is really foolish.

What if there had been kids in the car and one of them had been burned? Or some goof with a knife or a gun, or someone with a boyfriend who knows what he's doing?

Discretion is the better part of valor. Save your confrontations for when you really have no choice but to confront, but you can somewhat control the situation.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:53 AM   #22
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Hopefully the assaulter will face charges and justice served, but it doesn't happen as fast as tv land and it's never simple when you are laying this serious of a charge.
Sure. But this is a case where the RCMP has apparently been willfully nontransparent for inexplicable reasons at this point.

Two days after the young man died they should have released a statement as per usual.

"On July 12, 2017 an incident occurred where a young man was punched. He succumbed to his injuries on July 15, 2017. The Integrated Homicide Investigation Team has taken over and treating it as a homicide investigation. The assailant has been identified by police and his name will be released if any charges are made. There is no concern to public safety."

Took all of 10 seconds to do if that's the case. Instead the police had to be pushed by a journalist to say that a homicide investigation was even taking place and the public is still left in the dark. The concerned witnesses who saw a man die were probably shocked that there was 0 information. That's not the norm, something is sketch. It could just be incompetency, or the RCMP doesn't think it has to be transparent to the public anymore. Either way it's an absolute disgrace.

I realize there's times that the police can't release a statement like that or it would effect the investigation, there's really nothing in this scenario that would seem to suggest that to be the case here though.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:54 AM   #23
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Canucks Fans, amirite?
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:56 AM   #24
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There should be a special fine for cigarette butts, with the fire hazard it's not just littering but a complete disregard for people and property.
I'm sure existing littering bylaws could be used, but the real problem is how do you effectively enforce them?
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:57 AM   #25
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But it just seems that over the last little while, especially in the major cities, people are a lot quicker to anger, retailiate, bully whatever. Maybe its stress.
I think a big factor is the unwillingness of bystanders to get involved. It used to be that if a public argument was brewing to the point of violence, bystanders would step in and try to break things up. Today, if two people are engaged in an escalating argument or threatening situation, it may as well be happening on the moon for all the chances of any public intervention.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:58 AM   #26
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There should be a special fine for cigarette butts, with the fire hazard it's not just littering but a complete disregard for people and property.
Under Calgary's bylaws, it is a $1000 fine for throwing a lit cigarette out of a car. Most recent article I could easily find for BC - from 2015 - had it as a $173 fine out there.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:03 AM   #27
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Should be jail for tossing a butt in these dry conditions..anywhere, period. It's a simple reaction for me to want to chuck a butt back into the car from where it came. This story should be mandatory reading for 18-25 year old jabronis.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:04 AM   #28
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I think a big factor is the unwillingness of bystanders to get involved. It used to be that if a public argument was brewing to the point of violence, bystanders would step in and try to break things up. Today, if two people are engaged in an escalating argument or threatening situation, it may as well be happening on the moon for all the chances of any public intervention.
It all goes back to people not wanting to get involved because they don't know what they're going to get into.

for all they know this simple fight might evolve into a knife fight, or someone pulls a gun. Or both sides beat up the person intervening.

So its just not worth it to jump in, especially if you have no skin in the game.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:34 AM   #29
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Did he die from the punch, his head hitting the counter or the floor, or some underlying medical reason? These are all reasons the charge could go from murder to manslaughter to accident.
Actually, this is incorrect, as far as I'm aware. I'm pretty sure the thin skull rule applies equally in the criminal context in Canada as it does in tort. Basically, if you're a wrongful actor, you take your victim as you find him. In other words, if you sucker punch a guy in the ear, and unbeknownst to you he has a medical condition that makes him ten times more likely to die from a sucker punch in the ear, that is not a defense.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:39 AM   #30
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Actually, this is incorrect, as far as I'm aware. I'm pretty sure the thin skull rule applies equally in the criminal context in Canada as it does in tort. Basically, if you're a wrongful actor, you take your victim as you find him. In other words, if you sucker punch a guy in the ear, and unbeknownst to you he has a medical condition that makes him ten times more likely to die from a sucker punch in the ear, that is not a defense.
Not really my area either, but I think that is correct. Assuming the original punch was unlawful (not in self-defense, for example), I don't think it would matter that he didn't intend to kill him.
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Old 08-10-2017, 09:56 AM   #31
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iirc the leading case is Smithers. Unlawful act that contributes to death outside of de minimus range.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:24 AM   #32
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iirc the leading case is Smithers. Unlawful act that contributes to death outside of de minimus range.
This was definitively proven to be incorrect. In fact it was Maggie.

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Old 08-10-2017, 10:38 AM   #33
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I think a big factor is the unwillingness of bystanders to get involved. It used to be that if a public argument was brewing to the point of violence, bystanders would step in and try to break things up. Today, if two people are engaged in an escalating argument or threatening situation, it may as well be happening on the moon for all the chances of any public intervention.
Not true.

These days, if people see an altercation, they will attempt to make a video to post on social media in order to gain likes or push an agenda.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:41 AM   #34
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the killer is either a cop or a relative of a cop.

I hope I'm wrong though.

*from what I remember of criminal law in class, it would be a one-punch manslaughter case.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:06 AM   #35
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Under Calgary's bylaws, it is a $1000 fine for throwing a lit cigarette out of a car. Most recent article I could easily find for BC - from 2015 - had it as a $173 fine out there.
I'd be interested to know if this fine has ever actually been handed out to anyone. With all the cigarette butts one sees everywhere in this city you'd think bylaw would be able to solve any budget shortcomings pretty easily if they chose to.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:21 AM   #36
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It's surprising how idiotic people can be. I witnessed the car in front of me throwing a butt out the window last week in the right lane of southbound Macleod at Heritage right by the grassy area where they sell the Christmas trees. Ridiculously dumb in these hot conditions.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:37 AM   #37
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How long it will take for people to realize you can kill someone by sucker-punching them in the face?
This is where I blame movies/tv. All action movies show people getting knocked out for minutes/hours and it's no big deal. In real life, that would be serious head trauma.

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Old 08-10-2017, 11:43 AM   #38
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I'd be interested to know if this fine has ever actually been handed out to anyone. With all the cigarette butts one sees everywhere in this city you'd think bylaw would be able to solve any budget shortcomings pretty easily if they chose to.
Yes, it has. Problem is enforcement. Most people aren't stupid enough to throw a butt both where a cop sees it and where it is reasonably safe to pull the driver over.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:52 AM   #39
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It sounds like you're dealing with two very fiery, opinionated, confrontational personalities here, unfortunate incident all around. Completely avoidable situation, and unnecessary if you have the ability to be level-headed and not react to everything on pure emotion

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Old 08-10-2017, 12:30 PM   #40
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Should be jail for tossing a butt in these dry conditions..anywhere, period. It's a simple reaction for me to want to chuck a butt back into the car from where it came. This story should be mandatory reading for 18-25 year old jabronis.
Fascist.
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